Chasin the belt squeak...

[Z88Z]

Not really lookin for advice so much, just feel like venting. Post up though if you see something I missed.

My "seller" Plat w/242 Niner has the old fan belt squeak.

New belt - nope.
Newer but used pulleys - nope.
Tried stethescope trick to the stuff I could reach but should have had a longer one - nope
Tried ye olde hose trick - nope. Wasn't quite long enough to reach balancer area though.
(as an FYI for those not familiar with it. Hose to the ear is a lot like the stethoscope. Good for hearing mechanical transients from things you can't put a stethoscope on due to movement like balancer etc but it's actually usually used for hearing vaccuum leak hisses)

Tried tightening PS pump - nope.
Tried varying tension on tensioner - nope.
Looked at lineup of pulleys. Looks good.

EDIT: Tried spraying various pulleys and components, both on surface and bearing area, AC clutch etc. I do need to try spraying up the W/pump weep hole though.

Two most frustrating parts - 1) Whenever you replace something it's always quiet - for a day. Next day it's back.
2) Really drives me nuts, I can't even generalize the area. I can listen around the motor and get fairly close to it but it always seems to be in a different spot depending on where I listen from. Low, high, left, right. aargh!

Going to do a bit more of this steth stuff and get a longer hose and get a better listen on the balancer before I resort to swapping parts.

Mainly hoping its not the W/pump just cause it's the most work to replace.

There. I vented. Feel better now.

[Ninergrad]

It's the water pump.
Now what would be the ideal condition for replacing that ?

[Z88Z]

Originally Posted by ninergrad

It's the water pump.
Now what would be the ideal condition for replacing that ?

After what I've been through this winter? I dunno, maybe like a forest fire or something? At least the heat might be a nice change.

I'll have to go back and edit that. I did try spraying each pulley or bearing I could reach too. I'll have to try spraying up the weep hole.

If you're right Davit - I'll even give you your ammo back EDIT - via express air mail!

[Saleen4971]

ugh, my power steering pump is gonna **** the bed soo. betl squeels like a mofo. pump makes a clicking/popping noise at idle.

and my mopar water pump doesnt pump for dick.

[Dmntxn77]

Had the same problem a while back. I ended up swapping in a belt that was a couple mm's smaller, and no more squeak...

[Z88Z]

Saleen - Is your squeaking coming from the pump itself? If it is, can you hear it using the stethoscope method?
When you say Mopar w/ pump I assume you mean the MP one, or are you talking factory? How bad is the flow, bad enough to need replacing?

I'm not as concerned about PS pump or alternator as I am about the w/ pump or maybe the AC compressor.
One of the only casualties during my 98 5.2 parts removal was breaking the PS pump's return nipple off the plastic housing. Started thinking plastic housing / metal pump body hmmm. Checked FSM and sure enough two clips and an O-ring hold it so I still have a spare.

Really hate for one of the Niner alts to be bad but I do have a spare I can reluctantly use. Easy enough to swap though.
Parts car even has a real good AC compressor - just hate to have to change it cuz the AC works good on this Plat Niner. Compressor is simple swap too but I'd hate paying for the "vac and whack" for the AC charge.
Water pump - I really hope it's not the w/ pump. It's the biggest job of all of this plus it's the one part I wouldn't throw on there used.
That leaves the balancer. I've heard they can go bad (rubber separation) but that needs more looking into at this point.

Dmntexan - Pretty sure it isn't the belt. Not that I'd really recommend this procedure to others but, I threw a small 3/8 breaker bar and socket on the tensioner pulley bolt at idle and levered it back and fourth a bit to increase/decrease belt tension. Got worse when it was loose but only got marginally better when it was tighter.

The other thing it does that's a bit odd - the tensioner has a bit of 'jump' to it.
It moves maybe an eigth of an inch in quick jerks, moreso when I give it mild revs. I believe that's more of a symptom than the cause as the newer Dark Slate Nine does the same thing - but it has no belt squeak at all.
So, of all the ZJs, these two are the only ones with the 'jumpy' tensioners, but the Plat is the only one making the squeak squeak.

Bottom line on all this - I really hope it's the PS pump. A bit messy but it's free and not complicated.

[Mozencrath]

Id almost bet money on the tensioner or water pump. But then again if it was the WP, steth would hear it.

The tensioners are notorios for appearing inline, but in actuality they can easily have a warped spin that is unnoticeable and its hard to detect with a steth. Someone was supposed to buy one from me but never heard from him. I have two of them if that turns out to be your problem. Chrysler charges I think $120 for them!!!!!


If you wanna get real serious, get a microphone and a laptop and make a recording of all the pulleys while the belt is squealing. Send me the MP3 and I can use my Cubase program to isolate the squeal and tell you which pulley its coming from!!!! Guaranteed cure!

[Saleen4971]

Z88Z - with my heat on, as soon as my rev's drop below ~1500, there is a NOTICABLE loss in the temperature of the air pumping in. if i am in traffic, or parked, or whatever, the temp will creep up well over 210. the e-fan will bring it back down to 210, but it will only gounder if i bump the idle up to 1500+

new rad, new tstat, garbage mopar OEM pump. im still considering having my old pump rebuilt.

and my PS pump shot a bearing out the front yesterday. wee...

power steering pump squeels are very common, as the bracket that the pump mounts to commonly cracks, which you cant usually see until you loosen the bracket, and it comes off the motor in 2 pieces. but luckily that piece is only about $25 IIRC

[WiCKeD]

Originally Posted by Z88Z

The other thing it does that's a bit odd - the tensioner has a bit of 'jump' to it.
It moves maybe an eigth of an inch in quick jerks, moreso when I give it mild revs. I believe that's more of a symptom than the cause as the newer Dark Slate Nine does the same thing - but it has no belt squeak at all.
So, of all the ZJs, these two are the only ones with the 'jumpy' tensioners, but the Plat is the only one making the squeak squeak.

That was the grounds I used to replace my tensioner, but it looks like it is by design. Otherwise, they would be fixed.

If I had access to your collection, I would just be swapping parts over. Went to a Goodyear belt when I had a squeak and never looked back. You could feel the difference in how it grabbed, because the standard Gates will slip more easily when it gets worn, especially off the line.

Originally Posted by Saleen4971

power steering pump squeels are very common, as the bracket that the pump mounts to commonly cracks, which you cant usually see until you loosen the bracket, and it comes off the motor in 2 pieces. but luckily that piece is only about $25 IIRC

Try this. I can't say for sure whether the gearbox helped more or the pump, but my Jeep turns like butter now. It's friggin awesome.

[Saleen4971]

Hmmmm interesting wicked - is it bolt in?? Or did you have to do any mods??

How much is an OE mopar unit?

[Supershafts]

Originally Posted by Saleen4971

Z88Z - with my heat on, as soon as my rev's drop below ~1500, there is a NOTICABLE loss in the temperature of the air pumping in. if i am in traffic, or parked, or whatever, the temp will creep up well over 210. the e-fan will bring it back down to 210, but it will only gounder if i bump the idle up to 1500+

new rad, new tstat, garbage mopar OEM pump. im still considering having my old pump rebuilt.

and my PS pump shot a bearing out the front yesterday. wee...

Do you have, or did you go to the small pulleys . sound like you did, and the water pump slows to much and the alt..
Also always use the w/ac water pump or flowcooler style.

Originally Posted by WiCKed

Try this. I can't say for sure whether the gearbox helped more or the pump, but my Jeep turns like butter now. It's friggin awesome.

Another trick for the pump and steering, use a bigger return hose and fittings

[Saleen4971]

marty i ahve stock pulleys.

even when i had the 3 piece underdirve set my heat still worked, and my jeep did not overheat.

[WiCKeD]

Originally Posted by Saleen4971

Hmmmm interesting wicked - is it bolt in?? Or did you have to do any mods??

How much is an OE mopar unit?

Straight bolt on. They also have a ported one that they say requires higher pressure lines and a remote resevoir.

OEM Mopar is showing $340, aftermarket reman'd <$90, used < $60. Obviously there are options, if you just want a replacement.

[Saleen4971]

i woudl go with that one, if i had more than 2 days left at home!!!

i will check with my buddys at the dealer tomorrow, then autozone. there is an autozone right near my school, so if anythign goes south i can get it replaced.

[5.2zjkid]

z88z idler or tensioner pully i have seen them oblong out the hole and make noise but . that plastic res tank is a killer i think once i have removed one without brakin the tank is some spot .

[Z88Z]

Originally Posted by WiCKeD

If I had access to your collection, I would just be swapping parts over. Went to a Goodyear belt when I had a squeak and never looked back...

Easier said than done. Alt would be easy. PS pump, easy but messy - not the end of the world though (I'm a cheap SOB when I can be so I'd just use the PS pump off my parts Jeep)
AC comp - easy enough too but hate to discharge a working system - unless I knew that was the problem.

PS bracket looks solid and PS pump doesn't seem to move but spose it would be easy enough to remove the pump to examine it.

I just would really rather it wasn't the w/pump. Messy and expensive as I don't think I'd install a used one - would you? 5.2 and 5.9 w/pumps the same?
This one is being repaired for resale so I don't think I'd go for that TJ pump on this one.

As far as the jumpy tensioners - like I said, two jumpies out of six ZJs - and the other jumpy one doesn't make any noise.

Really need a longer stethescope and a longer hose for better listening. Was really using steel rod, not a true steth but neither that or the hose were really long enough.

Originally Posted by 5.2zjkid

z88z idler or tensioner pully i have seen them oblong out the hole and make noise but . that plastic res tank is a killer i think once i have removed one without brakin the tank is some spot .

Could be but I got a good listen on the tensioner, even right on the pulley bolt but didn't hear nuthin'

PS pump res didn't seem that hard. Broken one came off pretty easy at least.

[5.2zjkid]

they come off easy i just seem to always brake them . like always . a long extension isnt the same as a stethascope .

[Saleen4971]

i usually use a screwdriver on my temple as a steth.

hey Z im gonna PM you about a 5.9 part i need