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  1. #51
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    Hi

    this is a very interesting project! If I can help you in a way, please let me know...
    I've got a spare ECU and stuff like an osciloscope, etc.

    - Mat
    '97 Grand Cherokee Limited (ZJ), 5.2 V8, 2" Lift, Custom PCM Tune
    '98 Grand Cherokee LX (ZG), 5.9 V8, Stock

  2. #52
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    ok i looked thru all of this thread. i have no clue really what you are talking about as far as all the "terms" y'all are using, but i do understand what you are trying to do and how much work that is if that makes sence.
    anyway, would doing this and having complete control of the pcm also mean you would have control of the trans also?

    so in theory you would have the control to "tune" the trans like a stand alone controller for a gm trans ?

    you may not have gotten this far yet, but would the pcm need to be attached to anything other than the trans to work? as in does it need engine and throttle sensor inputs to be able to tell the trans what to do or does the pcm, or part of the pcm control it based on a set programming with input from the tps?

    what i'm asking here is, do you believe it will be possible to control shift point based on rpms only or will you need a tps to give input?


    sorry if those are stupid questions. i'm just rying to figure out when you say having complete control means. and does it include trans control?


    hey just figured out this is six months old. any new info or has it all been moved to wiki.?
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  3. #53
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    Hi speedmontzj

    the trans in these vehicles are not 100% controled by the pcm/tcm. There's not much more than TCC lockup to control.

    Btw. I belive this project isn't active anymore.

    - Mat
    '97 Grand Cherokee Limited (ZJ), 5.2 V8, 2" Lift, Custom PCM Tune
    '98 Grand Cherokee LX (ZG), 5.9 V8, Stock

  4. #54
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    The RH trans only has lockup and OD controlled by the PCM. The RE trans has an electronic governor, so the PCM has a good bit more to do (controls governor pressure, which controls the 1-2-3 shifts, in addition to the normal OD and lockup control).
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  5. #55
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    comptiger5000: You are right there's more that just TCC. But it can't be controlled like a GM trans (what he expects). There are far less parameters.
    Last edited by BlackZJ; 11-11-2012 at 01:35 AM.
    '97 Grand Cherokee Limited (ZJ), 5.2 V8, 2" Lift, Custom PCM Tune
    '98 Grand Cherokee LX (ZG), 5.9 V8, Stock

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackZJ View Post
    comptiger5000: You are right there's more that just TCC. But it can't be controlled like a GM trans (what he expects). There are far less parameters.

    i wasn't really expecting anything. i was more asking if the pcm controlled it like a gm or if it was more or less controlled itself with the pcms " approval" persay. i have given up on using the built 46re i have in my project and it will be going in my dd 5.9 as the trans in it is on its last leg. going for complete control of gear changing in the fast jeep by the way of a manual trans. thanks for the input thou blackzj and comptiger. i figured it was dead since it had been so long with no update.
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  7. #57
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    If you want more control, you could swap in a 46RH and run vacuum/gov pressure or manual switches for OD and lockup and leave the PCM out of the equation. It's not computer tunable, but you can tune it like an old school auto.

    The other option would be to put a GM trans in and run the Jeep off a GM PCM piggybacked off the stock one (stock one can run gauges and such). That would give you better tuneability.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  8. #58
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    .....The other option would be to put a GM trans in and run the Jeep off a GM PCM piggybacked off the stock one ...
    There is SO much stuff out there now...

    GM transes with cast in Mopar bellhousing patterns and standalone controllers. WIN!

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    If you want more control, you could swap in a 46RH and run vacuum/gov pressure or manual switches for OD and lockup and leave the PCM out of the equation. It's not computer tunable, but you can tune it like an old school auto.

    The other option would be to put a GM trans in and run the Jeep off a GM PCM piggybacked off the stock one (stock one can run gauges and such). That would give you better tuneability.

    the only reason i was wanting to use the 46re is because it is already built to the strongest level a 46re can be pretty much. it is the best auto i have ever owend in my life, being that i hate auto's . they are for pansies that can't drive a stick. sure they are faster but i would/will trade the little bit of speed for a better driving experience. i love grands for their smaller relative size and the v8 power with straight axle 4wd, not because it has an auto. nothing is perfect. although with the fast jeep i'm trading the auto and straight axle 4wd for a stick and a 2wd beam for the fastest, best street driving jeep i can have within my budget. last thing on earth i would think about doing would be to put a gm auto in my jeep. now i might put a ls motor with a gm t56. that is actually a thought i have been thinking about doing. i would take a 10lb sledge hammer to every body panel on that bitch before i would install a 4l60e or 80e.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
    There is SO much stuff out there now...

    GM transes with cast in Mopar bellhousing patterns and standalone controllers. WIN!
    come on now z that would be a win for losers. lol you don't like the thought of me putting gm power in the fast jeep but you think putting a gm trans would be a win? " isn't it ironic, don't you think? it's like rain on you wedding day, it's like a free ride when you've already paid. it's the good advice that you just didn't take." oh sorry i got lost in song.

    not really ironic but that is the first thing that popped into my head.
    Last edited by speedmontzj; 11-17-2012 at 10:45 PM.
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  10. #60
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    Using a GM trans is totally different than using a GM engine. The engine is the heart and soul of the beast, the transmission is just the legs.

    For the auto vs manual thing, for a vehicle that's hopefully in the 10s or faster, if it spends a lot of time on the street, manual wins. If it's more often running down the strip, go with the auto.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  11. #61
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    what is wrong with have a 10 sec manual trans car, truck, jeep whatever that spends its life on the strip? is it harder to be consistant? sure it is. but if you know how to change gears, and want the challange, it is way more fun. it means you have to be good at driving the car as much as setting the car up. that is why they have came out with the softloc and these multi disc clutchs. some guys want to have fun and be fast, and some guys want to be fast. i mean why, would you want to sit in there with both hand on the steering wheel when you could hold you hand on the shifter and every time the shift light flashes you jerk the shifter back as hard and fast as you can. i dont want to reach over and jusat bump it back. there is not better feeling than coming up on the 2 step at 6000 rpm and dumpinng the clutch and holding on.

    if you are runninng for some world championshi[ with a million dollar sponsership on the line going for every last .001 of a sec sure run one. if its a t n t ride, that also sees street time, don't be a pussy, shift some gears. its fun shifting with the one hand with it getting squirlly at a 80 or 90mph and driving thru it with the other hand. i'm looking for fun and that is the jind of fun i want to have. kinda like playing chicken with a 18 wheeler or jumping railroad tracks in front of a train.




    it also means you dont have to figure out how to piggyback a stand alone in while keeping the stock pcm to make it change gears. it also means you dont have to swap in a fawking gm trans . i dont look at it like heart and a sole kinda shit. it a automobile, if you believe in heaven do you think you will be saying when you get there, well i can't drive my jeep here because i damned it to hell when i put that fawking gm motor in there, wish i would have stuck with just the gm trans. i look at it like its either all mopar or its not. swapping in a gm trans is no different than a gm motor. if you keep the whole drivetrain mopar then its a mopar so to speak. if its got a mixed breed drivetrain then, well its a mixed breed. its not one or the other.

    hey its a mopar with a gm trans.
    hey its a mopar with a gm motor.

    to me those are both the same.as

    hey its a jeep body with a mopar motor, a gm trans, and a mopar rear axle
    hey its a jeep body with a gm motor, a mopar trans, and a mopar rear axle.
    hey its a jeep body with a gm motor and trans, with a mopar rear axle.

    all are the same as hey its a jeep body with a mix breed drivetrain.
    Last edited by speedmontzj; 11-18-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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  12. #62
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    It's harder to be consistent, and once you get fast enough, a manual will start to slow you down because you just won't be able to shift fast enough. It's certainly more fun, but at the dragstrip, if you're intending to do any real racing, it might be a disadvantage.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    It's harder to be consistent, and once you get fast enough, a manual will start to slow you down because you just won't be able to shift fast enough. It's certainly more fun, but at the dragstrip, if you're intending to do any real racing, it might be a disadvantage.

    like i said it is harder to be consistant no doubt. it will slow you down a bit, but like i said i would trade a half of a tenth for the fun of a stick. and if i get THAT SERIOUS at the strip as in heads up racing, i will swap to an st1300 or a lenko or something like that. and lets be real for a second. i doubt anyone on this site is serious enough to go heads up racing. the slowest heads up class that is not et based will cost you 100,000 plus a year to run not counting buying or building a car and a motor combo. then figure keeping up to date saftey wise and keeping the motor fresh/ blowing it up and having to rebuild. hell a competitive motor for x275 would prolly cost you 30,000 to 40,000+ to build depending on if it was a nos or turbo/supercharged. i don't think anyone is running n/a towards the front. hell a n/a motor would prolly cost you 50,000. if any of us had that that kind of money and nwere that serious we would not be hanging on this site.
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  14. #64
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    so this idea was scrapped or lost interest? or ?? i have a few PCMs layin around willing to give to allow tuning. tho, they are 93-94s, i only have 1 98.
    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 318 V8 my "go-fast grocery getter"
    2001 Yamaha Raptor 660 "awesome quad"
    2001 Chevy Impala 3.8 supercharged "moms go-fast car"
    1999 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Cam I4 "supercharged go-fast car"
    1995 Olds Cutlass Supreme 3.4 Dual Cam V6 "rare go-fast drag car"

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 95_V8_ZJ View Post
    so this idea was scrapped or lost interest? or ?? i have a few PCMs layin around willing to give to allow tuning. tho, they are 93-94s, i only have 1 98.
    i don't know really what happened. regular updates but they just stopped. maybe the guy doing the pcm breakdown went a different direction, but yeah its dead. if you have the right sct tuner and wanted to try tunign it yourself the software is 349 maybe less but thats close. only thiing it seems is no one seems to like it. or some don't. have seen some that do pretty good with it. only other way is ms3 or a stand alone. i think 350 is pretty cheap to be able to tune yourself. i might try that just to see how it goes. next cheapest option is ms3. if you build it all yourself you will have 1200 or so in it ( don't quote me on that number ). most full on standalones , fast, bigstuff etc will run you 2000 + i would think. i'm sure someone with a little more knowledge about the ms3 might chime. i had a thread were we talked about it a little.


    this thread
    http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread...-it-Gunna-Take

    tuning talk starts about the middle to end of page 2.
    Last edited by speedmontzj; 11-25-2012 at 11:06 AM.
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  16. #66
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    The guy who was working on it vanished without a trace and won't return emails. I'll start on it when I get back to the states and see if I can enlist some good help.

  17. #67
    Modfag Saleen4971's Avatar
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    He apparently also doesn't answer phone calls.
    Ross
    1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
    MPP Headers - Thunderbolt Metallic Cat - 3" Mag catback - EBC Brakes w/ drilled Rotors - 4bbl M1 - Vortech 12psi - Built trans & 2900 stall - Ford 8.8 - Addco & Hellwig Sways - Poly Bushings - H&R Springs - Grabber UHP Tires - Alpine/Infinity Stereo - FX-R BiXenon Retrofit

  18. #68
    Slick Member Moparboy72's Avatar
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    Ran into a site/program called Nefmoto for Bosch/Audi/S4 open tuning/flashing. It really looked like what we need in JTEC land.

  19. #69
    AtomicDog
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    Very interesting thread. I have a '96 Dodge Ram 2500 with a 5.9 gas motor. I'm also looking for ways to self-tune my JTEC PCM with laptop based software. Seems that the folks over at HP Tuners are working on JTEC support in their software. For more info, please refer to the following thread: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19609

    This thread was started back in 2008 and is still active.

  20. #70
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    well this thread looked like it took off until mid page 2 lol. new member here trying to crack this JTEC PCM, trying to bring as many heads together as possible to figure this out. im extremely limited but just getting started in hex. opened up a couple of other threads to see if i can find others who speak the language.

    heres what another member has figured out so far...
    found the pink book for the 68HC16....

    good news is that it acts like an updated/upgraded 68HC11..... the bad news is that it's basically the halfway point between a 68HC11 and the 68332 as used in a lot of GM OBD2 stuff.... it's basically a 68HC11 with integrated bank switching capabilities and makes for some rather confusing instructions...

    but i did find the vector table, so i have some idea of how the code is going to execute.

    the reset vector is actually kind of hard to calculate due to the bank switching... but it looks like it is 10000h.

    i've gotten a little bit of it disassembled..... initial impressions are that it was definitely not created in a lower level language
    a couple here have some good knowlege....

    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ge-Mopar/page2

    http://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen-...solutions.html
    Last edited by 34blazer; 12-28-2012 at 08:33 PM. Reason: forgot link

  21. #71
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    also some info on www.jtec.info

  22. #72
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    getting somewhere with this....

    Gearhead EFI member:
    i have the file i've been working on fully or at least close to fully disassembled.... good news is that there actually doesn't seem to be that much calibration to it.... bad news is that it means there is a WHOLE lot of algorithm to go through to try and understand the calibration. with no kind of reference to go off of(like the ALDL stream in GM OBD1 stuff), i really can't get much further than this.

    i can upload the IDA and ASM files so far, but i don't know how much use they'll be to anybody.

  23. #73
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    not much but a little more to contribute....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freescale_68HC16

  24. #74
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    Is there someone with a disassembled PCM that has some close up pics of the chips and markings? Thanks

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