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  1. #1
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    Intercooler feedback

    Googled it and just want opinions. Is it worth it with what I run? Anybody else run one? How much, which brand, is it easy etc. (Wow I sound like a noob...)

  2. #2
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic II View Post
    Googled it and just want opinions. Is it worth it with what I run? Anybody else run one? How much, which brand, is it easy etc. (Wow I sound like a noob...)



    no not at all!...but you should post this in Perf Mod section.
    Captain of the Nine

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    Modfag Saleen4971's Avatar
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    thread moved


    what kidn of IC?

    air to air like robzila had (cut out bumper)

    OR

    water to air like ben firehead had?
    Ross
    1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
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  4. #4
    Member 5.9_Racer's Avatar
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    I would say either way it will require custom work to make them work.
    I saw Robzilla's up close since he is just 45 miles south of me....

    The way I went kept it completely sleeper style and air to water is supposed to have the least amount of reduction on boost. I just took mine off a few days ago. The main advantage for running an IC is to get more timing in your tune for some extra ponys. The IC I had was plumbed into a reservior box that chilled the incoming air from around 230 degrees to 30-40 degrees on the track (if I ran 10lbs of ice in the box for the run)... else it would just knock the temps down maybe 100 degrees (A hair above ambient)
    Rarely Active, in case you are looking for me on here.....
    Past: 92 MJ --> 89 XJ --> 99 WJ --> 92 YJ [RIP] --> 98 ZJ [RIP] --> 05 LJ --> 98 ZJ
    Last: Stroker - 410Cu In, SuperCharged '98 ZJ (500hp+) @12.2 - 1/4mile.... she was a blast!!
    Click here for my build thread....Project Fireheadman 6.7L SuperCharged and Stroked

  5. #5
    Member WiCKeD's Avatar
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    You could probably squeeze one of these in w/o a huge amount of difficulty:
    http://forums.corral.net/forums/show....php?t=1236217
    http://www.newyorkmustangs.com/forum...es-t18668.html
    I thought about it...

    On the other hand, you can buy a pump, nozzle and boost controller and do meth injection for about 1/3 of that. That's the way Wraith and I went. Pros to both. You probably get more power and better mileage with the water IC, but you can add nitrous real easy with a methanol setup... If I were trying to do it right, I would probably go with the water IC, but the C.A.R.B. nazis wouldn't let me drive it...
    Last edited by WiCKeD; 12-03-2010 at 05:40 PM.
    '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9er
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  6. #6
    Member 5.9_Racer's Avatar
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    those are way $$$$$
    Rarely Active, in case you are looking for me on here.....
    Past: 92 MJ --> 89 XJ --> 99 WJ --> 92 YJ [RIP] --> 98 ZJ [RIP] --> 05 LJ --> 98 ZJ
    Last: Stroker - 410Cu In, SuperCharged '98 ZJ (500hp+) @12.2 - 1/4mile.... she was a blast!!
    Click here for my build thread....Project Fireheadman 6.7L SuperCharged and Stroked

  7. #7
    Member Beans's Avatar
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    Air to Air will always out-perform an air to water, you just have to compensate for the loss of pressure with the extra piping involved. Bar and plate out performs tube and fin. An air to water is popular for the ultra-high-horsepower drag crowd because they can fill up a resevoir with ice water, but it's only good for a couple of passes. For a street-driven car, air to air will take the cake, but it depends on what style of forced induction you use. Positive displacement SC's tend to respond better to the air to water type because of packaging concerns, centrifugal compressors(turbo and SC) are able to get away with an air-to-air since they have similar discharge paths. For air to air, you want something that will provide the most surface area with the least restrictive path for minimal losses. Air to air intercoolers will have better results with inlets on the top and bottom rather than on the sides.

    "Supercharged!" and "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell are must-have books if you plan on going down the turbo/SC route.


    1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4.7- 18" JK Sahara's, 245/55/18 BFG's, K&N Filter

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    Reviving an old thread because I'm planning to install an intercooler with my Vortech Supercharger. I kind of have a plan, but thought I would see if there are any new ideas since 2010.

    I'm thinking air-water because I don't see how to fit an air-air without some crazy plumbing. I saw Beans' preference for air-air, and claim that it outperforms air-water, but I just don't get this. If it's true, how could it be?

    Questions include:
    What intercooler are you using, and where is it installed?
    If air-water, what heat exchanger are you using, and where is it installed?
    Any other brilliant ideas?

  9. #9
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    You could do a side mount and put it behind a fog light hole. That's something I'm considering.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

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    I was hoping to hear some uninfluenced ideas before revealing my plan, but since you mentioned the fog light hole Tanner- I'll spill...
    Move the battery to the back instead of driver side, use the factory airbox location to install a heat exchanger, expansion tank, and electric water pump, yank left foglight and pipe a rectangled off 7" aluminum duct from the hole straight to the exchanger and 7" cooling fan for positive flow. It will dump right under the hood vent (I thought that was cool).
    Similarly, on the passenger side, pipe from foglight hole to an air-filter box to feed fresh air and nothing but fresh air to the supercharger.
    Fog lights seem a small sacrifice for a happy, and cool engine, and a better use for those factory scoops built into the bumper. Hell, it might even take some of the load off the compressor with the ram-air effect.
    Water-air intercooler would replace the charge tube (hole-to-hole dimensions are close), and it looks like this:

    I might have to modify the side hole location a bit for a perfect fit to the airhat, but it's no secret I'm OCD like that. Might weld in a 2.75" piece (the existing I/O are 3") to match the Vortech outlet, or machine it so it can clamp directly on the outlet without a silicone adapter. I'll have to install the boost limiter valve and bypass valve on the charge side anyway, so if I'm cutting and welding I might as well make it perfect instead of just good enough!
    I'm still looking for a good tiny (9x9) plate radiator for the heat exchanger... going to try Bent Bike (a local used motorcycle parts shop), or have a custom one made.
    Both airboxes will obviously have to be fabricated.
    Comments, critiques or suggestions? Completely different ideas? I came up with this notion in bed last night, so although I like this idea, I'm not married to it, and I'd be open to a simpler install. Not actually crazy about moving the battery all the way back.

  11. #11
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    who has that white niner with the huge cooler hanging below the bumper....

  12. #12
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by x10radsponge View Post
    who has that white niner with the huge cooler hanging below the bumper....

    Quote Originally Posted by 5.9_Racer View Post
    .... I saw Robzilla's up close since he is just 45 miles south of me....

    That was Robzilla's.

    I think he totaled it a few years back, but got another stone white and was going to swap the parts onto that one.

    He hasn't been on in three years though

  13. #13
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    I havent considered the A2W but honestly it seems to be just as much of a pain in the ass as A2A if not more. That being said my build is a bit different as my piping will be running down the framerail up into and around the inside of fender well and most likely feed into the little hole behind the evap solenoid. For me a side mount behind the fog is the matter of an extra 90, which I have plenty of.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilbullie5.9 View Post
    I havent considered the A2W but honestly it seems to be just as much of a pain in the ass as A2A if not more. That being said my build is a bit different as my piping will be running down the framerail up into and around the inside of fender well and most likely feed into the little hole behind the evap solenoid. For me a side mount behind the fog is the matter of an extra 90, which I have plenty of.
    Hmmm... I hadn't considered A-A because you have to route charge tubes a long distance through several bends, which reduces pressure and flow- is this less complex than I'm imagining?

    I read up on A-A a bit more, and now I understand why they can be more efficient than A-W, but with a fan-cooled radiator it should even out that advantage, and might be better for DD use.

    The advantage of A-W is they flow air better so can be smaller to fit without long and twisting air plumbing, and the water ducting can go anywhere easily with 1" flexible hoses. It's a more complex system - needs water pump, fan, expansion tank, heat exchanger, wiring and plumbing, but I think and easier install anyway. It could weigh a bit more, depending on how much air pluming is needed in the A-A.

    Sounds like most guys are skipping intercooling - is anyone running A-W now?

    I'm guessing Robzilla ran his charge tube up to a driver side inlet on the airhat?

  15. #15
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    Since all superchargers sit opposite of factory intake location(I think) I would assume he just looped it to stock location. I believe Notime is A2W. As far as complexity of piping for you I have no clue, our starting lines are totally different places.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

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    In Vortech's intercooler white paper ( http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...oler_paper.pdf ), it says of A-W:

    "Thermal Performance
    Blablabla... Together, these factors result in a heatexchanger of not only high effectiveness performance, but also of very compact design.Effectiveness performance can, in fact exceed the effectiveness of considerably largerair-to-air charge coolers, at similar operating conditions."


    "Pressure Loss Performance
    The air-to-water charge cooler can be quite compact in size so it can, in many cases, beinstalled under the hood, directly between the supercharger discharge and the enginethrottle body. This all but eliminates any additional ducting or piping required totransport charge air to a front-mounted charge cooler and return it to the engine. In theworst of cases, ducting runs are very short and to the point. Thus, only the pressureloss across the charge cooler core itself will result, and the total system pressure losswill typically be much less than a comparable air-to-air system. It should also be notedthat the losses through the core itself are less than a comparable air-to-air core. As willbe seen, these factors offer significant advantages for maximizing density ratioperformance, and hence power gain potential."







    In a whole lot of words, this sums up why I'm leaning A-W - they are compact, effective, and better air flow.

    In racing the speed of the air across the A-A cooler changes the equation, and the weight is less if done right. And it's less expensive.

  17. #17
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    Tim Edwards aka no time has a pretty neat setup, maybe he will chime in.

  18. #18
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    Yeah I dont technically need one so Im not even decided yet but because the necessity is somewhat low on my side I will be doing the cheapest and most "just effin stick it somewhere" version that is still good enough to be considered well done.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilbullie5.9 View Post
    Yeah I dont technically need one so... I will be doing the cheapest and most "just effin stick it somewhere" version
    I'd probably do well to take that approach more often, but my disorder won't let me. I tend to design things in my brain and on paper, and redesign several times before actually doing anything to an annoying degree. Sometimes it's better to just grab some parts, duct tape and a crescent hammer and go to work.

    Vortech also talked about not needing intercoolers with our superchargers, so I did consider skipping it entirely... but now that I have some momentum in that direction, and after reading Vortech's paper, I think I'm going to try A-W intercooler, and I'll do my first build thread when I get started.

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