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  1. #51
    Administrator Ninergrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    So, general consensus is... M1 FTW!?
    Not at all. Just saying that both those manifolds need strong top half to shine is all...
    -Davit.

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  2. #52
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    i give you 300skins for yer bad intake right now!
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  3. #53
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RINGWRAITH View Post
    i give you 300skins for yer bad intake right now!
    ???
    -'98 ZJ 5.9L Ltd Sunroof Delete Model-


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  4. #54
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenZJ View Post
    ???
    Watt??????
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  5. #55
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    What you talkin bout Willis?
    -'98 ZJ 5.9L Ltd Sunroof Delete Model-


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  6. #56
    Member NoTime's Avatar
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    Well back on track,,,,, my builder has used Hughes on the last 3 of his motors and has no problem with fitment and says he gets better results then the M1... ( he has used both on same motors and said the Hughes was better for all around bang for buck )

    As to the cork gasket,,, throw it away...... I have the rebuild kit from mopar anyhow...

    And with the mopar manifold you need the install kit and gasket anyhow... so make sure you add that into the price.

    And yes both manifolds are good...... but you need the rest of the goods to go with it to make it work the $$$..... it would not be my first pick on spending $$$ to go fast. I am doing a full rebuild so I figured ditch the barrel and go for a nice manifold
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Platinum - 408 SC Sleeper ( 7.49 / 11.? )
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  7. #57
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenZJ View Post
    What you talkin bout Willis?
    I thought it was kinda clear......but I will buy from Serb that nasty no fittin not workin (dyno proven BTW) held-on-fuel-rails-by"scrape metal" ground on, tweaked, designed by the two-faced D. Hughes and his Double Dealin nasty Vic Edelbrock accomplice(on the project) for three hundred dollars, come to think of it thats too high considering the nature of the manifold and the suspect crew that installed it...but watt the hell, I'm just that kinda guy....295.50, thats my last offer!!!!!

    Don't make me wait, I'm not good waitin around all day............
    Captain of the Nine

  8. #58
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    lmfao
    -'98 ZJ 5.9L Ltd Sunroof Delete Model-


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  9. #59
    Member NoTime's Avatar
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    Damm,,,, I'll give you $325.00 ( that's almost par with US ) then I will send my BRAND new one back to Hughes. ( oh I don't need the cork gaskets lol )
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Platinum - 408 SC Sleeper ( 7.49 / 11.? )
    2012 RAM - Tow Vehicle
    2007 GC SRT8 Daily Driver
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTime View Post
    Damm,,,, I'll give you $325.00 ( that's almost par with US ) then I will send my BRAND new one back to Hughes. ( oh I don't need the cork gaskets lol )
    Why U back stabbin MoFo!!!
    Lower than a snakes belly-in-a-wagon-rut!!!!
    295.55...last offer!
    Captain of the Nine

  11. #61
    Banned SERB Z06's Avatar
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    LOL I love this forum...

    Jeepers have been brainwashed for so many years by Kolak and Dino Savva that even when you have dyno proof that bolt-on's don't do anything they still don't believe you.

    Hey Colin I figured out a mod that will actually make us some power....we could swap in an S2000 motor and make a few more WHP than we do now! hahaha

  12. #62
    Banned Wrinklechops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SERB Z06 View Post
    LOL I love this forum...

    Jeepers have been brainwashed for so many years by Kolak and Dino Savva that even when you have dyno proof that bolt-on's don't do anything they still don't believe you.

    Hey Colin I figured out a mod that will actually make us some power....we could swap in an S2000 motor and make a few more WHP than we do now! hahaha
    I especially think that until people clean up the sloppy drivetrain, any power gains are going to be very hard to feel. You've been in my Jeep, it feels faster now that it's lowered and stiffened up with some poly bushings. Can't wait to get the rest of the bushings installed. And call me crazy, but I swear that changing to that Redline Heavyweight in the diff and Redline Synthetic C+ in the t-case made a difference.

    I still wonder if there's a way to put an LS motor in our engine bay...

  13. #63
    Administrator Ninergrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SERB Z06 View Post
    LOL I love this forum...
    You are too sweet.

    Jeepers have been brainwashed for so many years by Kolak and Dino Savva that even when you have dyno proof that bolt-on's don't do anything they still don't believe you.
    Headers - proven power.
    Exhaust - proven power
    Heads - proven power
    Roller Rockers - proven power
    Large TB - proven power
    Cold Air intake - proven power
    Intake manifold(combined with at least a cam) - proven power
    Strokers - proven power

    You do not need to be brainwashed to know simple things. You just need to learn to listen. You threw away money on a pointless mod and you are pissed. If you actually spent time reading the forum instead of pretending to been there and done that you would be much happier man now. But to each their own I guess. On that note I will pay you $450 for that "busted ass intake" that doesn't work. Hell I will even send you a shipping label.
    There's a smart way to mod a vehicle and then there's your way.
    Well done indeed.

    Hey Colin I figured out a mod that will actually make us some power....we could swap in an S2000 motor and make a few more WHP than we do now! hahaha
    Funny you should bring that up.
    I smoke the s2000 of the light couple of nights ago. it looked like it had custom exhaust and a carbon fiber hood. Didn't see much else. And I am pretty sure I can do it again. of course then there's am argument that the guy couldn't drive. But there seems to be alot of people with corvettes and ponys that have no idea how to do that.

    Hey Colin I figured out a mod that will make this thread better.
    Tomorrow I am going to lock and sticky it, remaining it into "stupid shit you can do with your money".
    For future generations of brainwashed Jeepers to learn upon.
    -Davit.

    98 ZJ 5.9L Slate
    Click here for MODS

    98 Ram 2500 5.9L 24V Cummins, short bed, Blue
    MBPR Turbo back 4" exhaust, Edge Juice, Superchips tuner.


    http://autotruckservice.org/

  14. #64
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    The stock chryco trannies are really soft. Very hard to feel power gains on the butt dyno.

    A stock top end won't make full use of either manifold.

    If you want to feel an immediate power improvement. Swap in a 5spd and feel what you've been missing.

    I stopped in cause I heard some knuckle dragger was having issues with the f1 intake. I still haven't seen you say exactly what it was other than it sucked and doesn't work. If you're gonna bash a proven product, you better back it up or you look like a retard who shouldn't have laces in his shoes or access to pointy scissors.

  15. #65
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
    The stock chryco trannies are really soft. Very hard to feel power gains on the butt dyno.

    A stock top end won't make full use of either manifold.

    If you want to feel an immediate power improvement. Swap in a 5spd and feel what you've been missing.

    I stopped in cause I heard some knuckle dragger was having issues with the f1 intake. I still haven't seen you say exactly what it was other than it sucked and doesn't work. If you're gonna bash a proven product, you better back it up or you look like a retard who shouldn't have laces in his shoes or access to pointy scissors.

    This is what I was told


    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    But also, the Hughes manifold was a bit perplexing to install. They don't have a place to put an IAT sensor whereas the M1 does. All the little crazy brackets that come with the Hughes to make it fit seem a little excessive whereas the M1 is much more simple and direct it seems. Had to grind off stuff on the TB just to get the Hughes to fit. Also, the Hughes came with cardboard joke gaskets. We scratched our heads on that one for a minute.
    -'98 ZJ 5.9L Ltd Sunroof Delete Model-


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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenZJ View Post
    This is what I was told
    i saw their installer error comments. it appears he's the only one on any dodge or jeep forum to have a problem with the install. unless he's got some hard proof of the "problems" i'm inclined to think he's just too simple to do more than an oil change.


    for engine swaps....check out mallcrawlin, they know how to put an ls motor in a grand just fine over there.

  17. #67
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
    The stock chryco trannies are really soft. Very hard to feel power gains on the butt dyno.

    A stock top end won't make full use of either manifold.

    If you want to feel an immediate power improvement. Swap in a 5spd and feel what you've been missing.

    I stopped in cause I heard some knuckle dragger was having issues with the f1 intake. I still haven't seen you say exactly what it was other than it sucked and doesn't work. If you're gonna bash a proven product, you better back it up or you look like a retard who shouldn't have laces in his shoes or access to pointy scissors.
    Quote Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
    i saw their installer error comments. it appears he's the only one on any dodge or jeep forum to have a problem with the install. unless he's got some hard proof of the "problems" i'm inclined to think he's just too simple to do more than an oil change.


    for engine swaps....check out mallcrawlin, they know how to put an ls motor in a grand just fine over there.
    2X...yer crackin me up!!!!!
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  18. #68
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninergrad View Post
    You are too sweet.



    Headers - proven power.
    Exhaust - proven power
    Heads - proven power
    Roller Rockers - proven power
    Large TB - proven power
    Cold Air intake - proven power
    Intake manifold(combined with at least a cam) - proven power
    Strokers - proven power

    You do not need to be brainwashed to know simple things. You just need to learn to listen. You threw away money on a pointless mod and you are pissed. If you actually spent time reading the forum instead of pretending to been there and done that you would be much happier man now. But to each their own I guess. On that note I will pay you $450 for that "busted ass intake" that doesn't work. Hell I will even send you a shipping label.
    There's a smart way to mod a vehicle and then there's your way.
    Well done indeed.



    Funny you should bring that up.
    I smoke the s2000 of the light couple of nights ago. it looked like it had custom exhaust and a carbon fiber hood. Didn't see much else. And I am pretty sure I can do it again. of course then there's am argument that the guy couldn't drive. But there seems to be alot of people with corvettes and ponys that have no idea how to do that.

    Hey Colin I figured out a mod that will make this thread better.
    Tomorrow I am going to lock and sticky it, remaining it into "stupid shit you can do with your money".
    For future generations of brainwashed Jeepers to learn upon.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoTime View Post
    Damm,,,, I'll give you $325.00 ( that's almost par with US ) then I will send my BRAND new one back to Hughes. ( oh I don't need the cork gaskets lol )
    watts with you two tring to out bid me????Huh???
    I like you both, and I'd like to bitch slap boof of you for for tring to steal my "junk"...shees...."friends".............
    Captain of the Nine

  19. #69
    Banned Wrinklechops's Avatar
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    Maybe we had a bad manifold, but it shouldn't have been so hard to install. Ben (5.9 Racer) did most of the install on Milan's Jeep and kept mentioning the differences between his M1 and the Hughes. He didn't have to grind off anything on the throttle body or anywhere on the brackets just to get the manifold tightened down. And the M1 comes with a place to put your IAT sensor instead of finding another place to put it and soldering wires to stretch the factory IAT wiring.

    And why even supply cork gaskets? I mean, they weren't the right size or anything. I don't know, I guess I don't know how much more solid proof is needed? I feel like a broken record. I'll be getting the M1

  20. #70
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SERB Z06 View Post
    LOL I love this forum...

    Jeepers have been brainwashed for so many years by Kolak and Dino Savva that even when you have dyno proof that bolt-on's don't do anything they still don't believe you.

    Hey Colin I figured out a mod that will actually make us some power....we could swap in an S2000 motor and make a few more WHP than we do now! hahaha
    You have no right to say what you just said about either of those Gentleman...both have done our "sport" great service, have been friends to many and spent many hours helping others who need it.......

    It is my opinion that you should leave this place, take yer cronie squad with you and don't look back.........................
    Captain of the Nine

  21. #71
    Ross is gay
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    LOL at this thread
    - John
    - I'm 25 and learning <---- ORIGINAL
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    - 98 5.9L Limited Bright Metallic Platinum, 2", some minor performance mods, daily driver duty

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    Senior at The Ohio State University - Construction Systems Management

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  22. #72
    Banned Wrinklechops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RINGWRAITH View Post
    take yer cronie squad with you and don't look back.........................
    Hopefully that doesn't mean me or Ben (5.9_Racer) lol

  23. #73
    Banned Wrinklechops's Avatar
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    Figured I would post this here for our reference...

    From the Hughes website:



    Notice how it says stock 360 engine"....

    And this is from the product page:
    Not only will it increase your horsepower it will also improve your mileage (if you're able to keep your foot out of it!). Now you can maintain all of the low end torque of the stock factory barrel style intake yet get the increased higher RPM horsepower you've been missing.

    You can look at my stock 360 engine vs Milan's on the dyno and show that he lost low end torque and high end rpm horsepower rather than gained it.

    I guess they should really modify that to say that any HP increases will not be from their intake manifold alone, but rather coupled with heads, a cam, etc.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 04-06-2010 at 08:38 PM.

  24. #74
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    OK, here is the answer. A true fact with dynoing engines; if you change a component and see no change then that was not your limiting component. A so called dodge engine builder got a Hughes air-gap and made the same statement. He ended up eating a little crow on that. Give you a hint he is in FL. The fact when you build an engine you have to take alot of factors into consideration. In this case the heads, cam, throttle body, etc. could be the limiting factor. Your have to look at flowrates. If you have an intake with a great flow rate and a limiting throttle body, cam, or heads you will see no gain! You can't just slap any part on an engine and just think it will be better.

    Now, I have run a stock kegger, a stage II kegger, a M1, and a first run of the Hughes Air-Gap (the not so pretty version). And I will tell you the Hughes Air-Gap for my application was the best. I would recommend it to everyone for many reasons. I also understand the the cost factor. Just remember opinons are like behinds (a PG verision) everyone has one and they all stink.

    This is why I just read forums and not get involved in these games. I have used many different parts from different suppliers and Dave Hughes has done well by me. I can't say that about others. Notice that I didn't mention there names.

  25. #75
    Banned Wrinklechops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepZJ408 View Post
    OK, here is the answer. A true fact with dynoing engines; if you change a component and see no change then that was not your limiting component. A so called dodge engine builder got a Hughes air-gap and made the same statement. He ended up eating a little crow on that. Give you a hint he is in FL. The fact when you build an engine you have to take alot of factors into consideration. In this case the heads, cam, throttle body, etc. could be the limiting factor. Your have to look at flowrates. If you have an intake with a great flow rate and a limiting throttle body, cam, or heads you will see no gain! You can't just slap any part on an engine and just think it will be better.
    I totally agree. The only beef I have is with manufacturers flat out claiming a piece like their Airgap intake manifold will make more power on a BONE STOCK 360 motor. See the picture I posted above or just go to the Hughes website. People buy it and expect some kind of power increase from it as advertised, but see none until they upgrade the rest of the engine to include things like heads, a cam, and others that you mentioned as well.

    An air intake for example has been dyno tested on so many different engines and configurations (except maybe a turbo car, or one with a MAF) to make power that you can't argue against that. Even if it's such a minor increase in power, it's still there. You don't need to upgrade other things to feel the power increase with an air intake. Same goes for exhaust I'm sure. The same cannot be said for an intake manifold, especially on our engines it seems. There are too many limiting factors like you said.

    When I dyno again, hopefully I'll have a few more things done to include an M1 intake manifold. I'll definitely post results! And I urge anyone to dyno if/when they ever get a chance. It really helps you out knowing where you stand power wise, and it helps everyone in our Jeep community out, knowing what mods made what power, etc.

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