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Thread: KRC 210X Cam

  1. #1
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    KRC 210X Cam

    Quick question. I was emailing KRC about their 210X cam. I asked about valve springs, pushrods and stuff, and what they Recommended. Below is their response.

    Roger,

    The cam is $349.99 I would recommend our beehive valve springs retainers and locks and your factory valves and pushrods would be just fine. I do recommend getting a tuner in your truck if you do not already have one.
    The price for
    SCT, Valve springs, Retainers, Locks, 210x cam. - $1,171 - 10% (package Deal) - $1,055.99

    Dalton Watson, Lead Technician
    Watson Performance Engineering LLC / KRC Performance
    krcperformance@krcperformance.net
    321-267-9650
    Now my question is, are Beehive springs really needed with this cam? If they are, dont I have to have my valve seats or something cut to be able to seat the springs correctly?
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    Member JGC403's Avatar
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    What heads are you using?
    No replacement for displacement!

    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo ZJ
    360 Stroker, 403 c.i.
    3" Skyjacker lift
    31" tires
    K&N Intake
    Edelbrock TES

  3. #3
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    For now Id like to keep my factory heads. I really dont want to remove them just yet. lol
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    Member JGC403's Avatar
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    I forget what the max valve lift is for stock springs, before they bind. The beehive springs will allow more lift, because the coils don't stack on top of each other like normal valve springs.
    No replacement for displacement!

    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo ZJ
    360 Stroker, 403 c.i.
    3" Skyjacker lift
    31" tires
    K&N Intake
    Edelbrock TES

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    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    Can I install the beehives without having to remove my heads?
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    Member JGC403's Avatar
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    I have never done it but I have heard of doing it. You need a spring compressor and an air compressor. The spark plug is removed and the air compressor is hooked up to the spark plug hole. The air compressor will allow you to compress the valve spring and it keeps the valve from falling into the cylinder.

    It would be easier to just take the head off. Put a better head gasket on and some head studs on wile your at it.
    No replacement for displacement!

    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo ZJ
    360 Stroker, 403 c.i.
    3" Skyjacker lift
    31" tires
    K&N Intake
    Edelbrock TES

  7. #7
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    I guess what I am getting at, is do I need to cut my valves as I have read.
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    Ben Piraro 5.9_Racer's Avatar
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    I used to run the 210x when i was a 360..... it is a good cam for stock block that you are wanting to wake up a lot!!... But I had Edlebrock alum heads when I ran it.... and they were using whatever springs they put on there.

    I haven't heard of anyone replacing springs on a head that is still attached.... Just think of what mess you would create/cause if the valve feel down after you removed the locks.... OUCH! I know for that cam you do not really need the beehives, so you might be able to research some more into a double coil spring and save some money on that.

    Personally... I think Marty and Levi are a wealth of information... I buy from them when I need to... usually they cost an arm and a leg. If you can get the grind # on the cam for the 210x... like this...


    ... well now you can call CompCam and buy directly from them and save some more $$$ and it will ship within a couple days vs having to wait 2 months like I did.... You might even be able to pick CompCam's brain on springs if you really need to... They make cams, so they have good people there that will not steer you wrong.

    Something else to consider.... how many miles do your springs have on them? Would you be comfortable throwing a new cam in there that is going to push your valvetrain a lot more... knowing if your springs break, you just trashed your engine? I wouldn't.... of course I have already been there done that... got more than a t-shirt for it.

    Just take some time and shop around...
    Benjamin Piraro
    Rarely Active, in case you are looking for me on here.....
    Past: 92 MJ --> 89 XJ --> 99 WJ --> 92 YJ [RIP] --> 98 ZJ [RIP] --> 05 LJ --> 98 ZJ
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    Click here for my build thread....Project Fireheadman 6.7L SuperCharged and Stroked
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    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice. Ive been talking to Dalton Watson. Apparently KRC was taken over/bought out? Its now called Watson Performance Engineering?

    And to get things cleared up, Ill pretty much have to remove the head to do new springs? Ive never done engine work more than a timing chain before, so thats why Im coming off as a little retarded, lol.
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  10. #10
    Ben Piraro 5.9_Racer's Avatar
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    a cam install is fun....!!!! but it can quickly become a nightmare.
    be very careful with the cam bearings. I had bad luck on my first ones... but it was actually a blessing in disguise. My inner bearings were shot from something getting into the babbit material and eating them up.

    They have cam bearing installation/removal tools you can rent to replace them. IF...IF your bearings are good, then keep them. IF there are nicks present, replace them... you do not want to have to take your engine apart a month later because you thought they were good enough.... Pain in the ARSE is what that is. The one bearing you will not be able to replace is the REAR cam bearing..... That is unless you feel like dropping the transmission and replacing the cam plug too.

    yeah I heard about the KRC changeover....
    Benjamin Piraro
    Rarely Active, in case you are looking for me on here.....
    Past: 92 MJ --> 89 XJ --> 99 WJ --> 92 YJ [RIP] --> 98 ZJ [RIP] --> 05 LJ --> 98 ZJ
    Last: Stroker - 410Cu In, SuperCharged '98 ZJ (500hp+) @12.2 - 1/4mile.... she was a blast!!
    Click here for my build thread....Project Fireheadman 6.7L SuperCharged and Stroked
    http://"https://www.facebook.com/benjaminpiraro"
    https://plus.google.com/100586731452936453233?rel=author
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminpiraro

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    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    Its all new to me. Im very excited to learn though, and Ive been trying to research as much as possible. Its alot easier to learn though when you hav people who can answer specific questions rather than spending hours searching, reading, and sifting through other info that further confuses you. LOL.
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    Member Paranign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenZJ View Post
    And to get things cleared up, Ill pretty much have to remove the head to do new springs? Ive never done engine work more than a timing chain before, so thats why Im coming off as a little retarded, lol.
    No you don't have to remove the heads. You can pressurize the cylinder as stated above, turn the cyl to TDC, use a magnet, etc. to keep the valve from falling into the cylinder. Google it, they are many ways. I've even read about filling the cylinder with rope through the spark plug hole. Here's the tool I use, you'll need one like it

    http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

    Make sure the springs fit the stock seat or machining will be required. Sometimes shims are needed, so ask about that. And have a good strong magnet to remove the keepers.

    Sounds like a great deal for $1100 as far as HP per buck goes. Cheers
    94 ZJ Limited - 5.9, Edelbrock headers w/full 2.5" Flowmaster exhaust, Comp torque cam, EQ 1.92 heads, 3.5" lift, Bilstein, OME HD coils, Truetracs F/R, 31" Cooper STT, Galaxy CB, JKS Supernerfs, Mopar efan w/DC Controls box, 242 TC, built trans, 4.10

    95 ZJ Limited - 5.9, 2.5" Flowmaster exhaust, UC, 242 TC, Taurus efan, MX6, mostly stock

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    Banned SERB Z06's Avatar
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    You can change the valve springs EASILY without taking your heads off. That would be stupid to take them off for such a simple process.

    There is a CRANE tool you can buy on ebay for like $60 or so that compresses it for you, then you also need a tool that adapts your air compressor and makes it so you can screw the adapter into the spark plug hole and pressurize the cylinder so the valve doesn't drop.

    It's very easy, but it is time consuming. But taking your heads off would be retarded IMO

    I would upgrade the pushrods anyway, they are cheap, less than $100

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    ^^ i am with this guy. No need at all to remove your heads just to replace the springs. Ive done it quiet a few times, just get the adapter and make sure the cylinder is pumped up with air and there is NO way that valve will drop. you only need like 5-10psi to hold the valve up, hook it up to 100psi and your fine.

    No you don't need a valve job for new springs. you need a valve job if you replace the valves because they may not seat correctly.

    I would also recommend upgrading pushrods. Have you ever seen what a pushrod looks like at 5500rpms? it looks like spaghetti. That and firmer valve springs (but not much firmer) are not an option. springs are not just needed for bind but to make sure you have enough seat pressure to ensure that valve closes. Stock you had a small cam that went to 4800, now you will probably go up to 5500rpm or so with a much more aggressive cam. stock springs and pushrods were not made for this.
    Last edited by shift_GRIND; 06-10-2010 at 04:04 PM.
    1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 - 82k

    242, SCT, GIBSON, K&N intake, BILSTEINS, Addco & Hellwig sways

  15. #15
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    So I assume I can then measure for pushrod length with the head on the block?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranign View Post
    No you don't have to remove the heads. You can pressurize the cylinder as stated above, turn the cyl to TDC, use a magnet, etc. to keep the valve from falling into the cylinder. Google it, they are many ways. I've even read about filling the cylinder with rope through the spark plug hole. Here's the tool I use, you'll need one like it

    http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

    Make sure the springs fit the stock seat or machining will be required. Sometimes shims are needed, so ask about that. And have a good strong magnet to remove the keepers.

    Sounds like a great deal for $1100 as far as HP per buck goes. Cheers
    Thanks for the link! Ill be buying that soon. And as for the $1100, its actually cheaper than that. I already have the SCt, so Im looking at around $650 for it all You would happen to know what the adapter is called to compress the cylinder with air, would you?
    Last edited by GreenZJ; 06-10-2010 at 10:06 PM.
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    Modfag Saleen4971's Avatar
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    stock springs are beehive AFAIK

    def dont use the stockers tho, they relaly cant handle the lift of the 210X cam.
    Ross
    1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
    MPP Headers - Thunderbolt Metallic Cat - 3" Mag catback - EBC Brakes w/ drilled Rotors - 4bbl M1 - Vortech 12psi - Built trans & 2900 stall - Ford 8.8 - Addco & Hellwig Sways - Poly Bushings - H&R Springs - Grabber UHP Tires - Alpine/Infinity Stereo - FX-R BiXenon Retrofit


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    Ross is gay
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saleen4971 View Post
    stock springs are beehive AFAIK
    ok good, i wasnt imagining somebody told me that
    -John
    -Im 22 and learning
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    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saleen4971 View Post
    stock springs are beehive AFAIK

    def dont use the stockers tho, they relaly cant handle the lift of the 210X cam.
    If that is the case, why does KRC say this about the 236x cam?

    WPE 236x Cam

    236/242-555/575 112

    2800-6600 Operating Range.

    This cam requires an SCT Tuner and beehive valve springs. Iron heads require the seat pocket to be cut to accept the beehive springs.

    and they also say this about the 224x cam

    WPE 224x Cam

    224/236 536/555 112*

    2800-6500 Operating Range.

    This cam requires an SCT Tuner and good valve springs. Iron heads should run the WPE single spring w/ damper. Edlebrock heads can use the Eddy springs or upgrade to beehives.

    *This cam is also available on a 114LSA or a 116LSA for FI applications.
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    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    I found the adapter used to keep the cylinder head under pressure to keep the valve from falling. It was on ebay for dirt cheap. I paid 6.50 shipped!

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KD-AI...motiveQ5fTools
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    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    I also just ordered one of these from amazon. It was about 20 bucks cheaper than that snap on and looks to be exactly the same

    [ame]http://www.amazon.com/K-D-Tools-3271-Universal-Compressor/dp/B0002STSM6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1276233921&sr= 8-1[/ame]
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  22. #22
    RallyJeep GO
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    They say that so people don't expect that non-beehive aftermarket springs (which may come on some upgraded heads) would be good enough.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 242 swap, EQ 2.02 heads, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune from Flyinryan, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, MX6 shocks, rear upcountry coils (suspension special sauce coming soon), power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  23. #23
    Member Paranign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenZJ View Post
    So I assume I can then measure for pushrod length with the head on the block?
    Good work on the purchases, you done well.

    Measuring pushrod length with hydraulic lifters can be maddening. You're never sure if the lifter is fully pumped up or not. If it isn't, your measurements are garbage. And the measurement is critical, it must be spot on.

    The good thing is pushrods are easy to swap and relatively cheap. The stock pushrods are 6.92". You might need a longer pushrod because the base circle of the cam may be a smaller. It's smaller because the new cam, with the bigger lobes, has to fit through the holes in the block. For money's sake, what I would do is try the stock pushrods and see what kind of valvetrain noise you get, if any. If you get slight ticking, try these

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-7828-1/

    If any of your lifters are worn, you're going to know it with a lumpier cam. It's a good idea to replace them with industrial strength lifters. Cheers
    94 ZJ Limited - 5.9, Edelbrock headers w/full 2.5" Flowmaster exhaust, Comp torque cam, EQ 1.92 heads, 3.5" lift, Bilstein, OME HD coils, Truetracs F/R, 31" Cooper STT, Galaxy CB, JKS Supernerfs, Mopar efan w/DC Controls box, 242 TC, built trans, 4.10

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  24. #24
    Member GreenZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranign View Post
    Good work on the purchases, you done well.

    Measuring pushrod length with hydraulic lifters can be maddening. You're never sure if the lifter is fully pumped up or not. If it isn't, your measurements are garbage. And the measurement is critical, it must be spot on.

    The good thing is pushrods are easy to swap and relatively cheap. The stock pushrods are 6.92". You might need a longer pushrod because the base circle of the cam may be a smaller. It's smaller because the new cam, with the bigger lobes, has to fit through the holes in the block. For money's sake, what I would do is try the stock pushrods and see what kind of valvetrain noise you get, if any. If you get slight ticking, try these

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-7828-1/

    If any of your lifters are worn, you're going to know it with a lumpier cam. It's a good idea to replace them with industrial strength lifters. Cheers
    thanks for the help! Some great info!
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  25. #25
    Member Paranign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenZJ View Post
    thanks for the help! Some great info!

    Just sharin and tryin to save you $
    are you sticking with the stock valvetrain or going RR? I ask because everything I said pertains to stock
    94 ZJ Limited - 5.9, Edelbrock headers w/full 2.5" Flowmaster exhaust, Comp torque cam, EQ 1.92 heads, 3.5" lift, Bilstein, OME HD coils, Truetracs F/R, 31" Cooper STT, Galaxy CB, JKS Supernerfs, Mopar efan w/DC Controls box, 242 TC, built trans, 4.10

    95 ZJ Limited - 5.9, 2.5" Flowmaster exhaust, UC, 242 TC, Taurus efan, MX6, mostly stock

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