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  1. #26
    Banned Wrinklechops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RINGWRAITH View Post
    Yepper!!! get the SW gasket too.
    SW gasket? lol I have the neoprene one that came with the K&N FIPK... no go?

  2. #27
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashman702 View Post
    Haha good to know! Glad you could get me learned up!
    Funny thing here is I haven't installed it on my 9er yer because of a back injury......yep.....wussed out!

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^W-chops: SpeedWay Motors.................
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  3. #28
    Ross is gay
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    few questions

    - like squash was saying with that girdle, is it really that good? I am not doubting you either, it just seems too easy and inexpensive lol.

    -You posted up a windtray, then you posted the hughes girdle. Which is better? (will be going on a rather stock 5.2). The windtray says itll block the crank from hitting the "cloud" of oil and scrape is off the rod/crank. And the girdle does not look like is has anything underneath to shield the splash like the windtray does, but says it does the same thing?

    -Also, with that windtray, I checked the application guide and it didnt go any higher than a 91 with the range of years it would work with. Does that matter?

    -With the girdle, it says this
    This girdle was designed to work with the stock crank or a 4.00" stroke crank with no modifications. This kit will require that your block either has been, or will be line honed with main studs.
    it says itll work with no mods, but then it says your block will have to be honed with main studs.. Forgive me for my lack of knowledge in this department, but what exactly does that mean? Do you have to do anything to make the studs work or do you just screw them in?

    -the girdle says 360 only. is that true? why would it not work with a stock 5.2? i was under the impression both blocks were very much the same despite CI, internal vs external balance, flexplate, and other little odds and ends.

    Again, please forgive the newbish questions, but I am not terribly educated (very interested though) with engines, related terms, and small things like these.

    And this would be going on a very mild modded 5.2 (intake, exhaust, ported keggar, ECU, ignition).

    thanks

    oh and why arent 1.7 rollers in this thread??
    - John
    - I'm 25 and learning <---- ORIGINAL
    - 96 5.9L Black limited, 5", LA's, blacked out, nothing really stock left
    - 98 5.9L Limited Bright Metallic Platinum, 2", some minor performance mods, daily driver duty

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    Senior at The Ohio State University - Construction Systems Management

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  4. #29
    Member 5.9_Racer's Avatar
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    I do not see why it wouldn't fit on the 5.2L.... however, the purpose of the girdle is just to keep the bottom in check when at higher RPMs. I personally would not put money on a girdle for a 5.2. If you were going a stroker route, then I would.... But stroke a 360, not a 318.... just more Cubes that way.

    The part you quoted... is referring to a line hone on the mains. This means they take the crank out, slap the mains back on (and the girdle) and use a cylindrical honing device to go straight down the mains. From the factory, very (VERY) few blocks are perfectly straight down the mains. This honing process just cleans up the line. Since the girdle joins all the mains together, they need to be straightened or you will have issues with clearance on the crank to mains rubbing/grinding prematurely. Hope I didn't confuse anyone on that.

    As for them saying there are no mods required... that is a bunch of garage!!! The oil pump will need to be clearanced to allow the ARP bolts to go in. If you are on a stroker setup, it might need a hair taken off here and there (depending on your selection of connecting rods you bought). I am using SCAT H-beams, which are heavy duty compared to I-beams and it actually fit perfect..... The rods will literally be so tight to the girdle on rotation that would can barely slip a piece of paper between them... that is where it acts as a scraper to remove the oil... thus creating less drag and giving back some HP.
    Last edited by 5.9_Racer; 12-06-2009 at 01:22 PM.
    Rarely Active, in case you are looking for me on here.....
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    Last: Stroker - 410Cu In, SuperCharged '98 ZJ (500hp+) @12.2 - 1/4mile.... she was a blast!!
    Click here for my build thread....Project Fireheadman 6.7L SuperCharged and Stroked

  5. #30
    Ross is gay
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    theres the catch i was looking for.

    so its actually like a $1200 mod in reality (or whatever parts plus honing cost total)
    - John
    - I'm 25 and learning <---- ORIGINAL
    - 96 5.9L Black limited, 5", LA's, blacked out, nothing really stock left
    - 98 5.9L Limited Bright Metallic Platinum, 2", some minor performance mods, daily driver duty

    -


    Senior at The Ohio State University - Construction Systems Management

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  6. #31
    Member 5.9_Racer's Avatar
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    yeah the machine shops love to throw in hidden costs. I about sh!t'd a gold brick when I saw my bill
    Rarely Active, in case you are looking for me on here.....
    Past: 92 MJ --> 89 XJ --> 99 WJ --> 92 YJ [RIP] --> 98 ZJ [RIP] --> 05 LJ --> 98 ZJ
    Last: Stroker - 410Cu In, SuperCharged '98 ZJ (500hp+) @12.2 - 1/4mile.... she was a blast!!
    Click here for my build thread....Project Fireheadman 6.7L SuperCharged and Stroked

  7. #32
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Whoa! 50,000 questions, 51,000 assumtions!!!!!
    Windage trays came stock on the early magnums.....
    Windage trays will prevent the crank from slapping into the oil cloud.
    Windage trays will not add strength to the bottom end....
    Windage trays and girdles require studs not main cap bolts
    The hughes girdle was "found" to do a good job on windage
    Stroker engines have different geometry, hence different fasteners, usually rods, pistons, cranks, etc.....so there is "extra" machining, clearancing, and fabrication necessary when adding non stock items....
    The girdle was mentioned in this discussion in regards to its windage ability shedding light on the possible horse power gains that can be had by "controling windage"
    Windage trays are commonly called crank scrappers....better use "crank scrapper" in a Google search or product search engine than "windage tray"
    The crank girdle will not prevent crank contact with an oil cloud....
    Oil clouds and oil clinging to the rotating assembly are two forms of "windage"
    Windage trays require main cap studs and washers and nuts to provide the anchoring
    Windage trays ARE a RACERS secret for reliable horse power increase....
    Windage trays are for the cost effective..................:

    Now, Z-Joes and our one Z-Jet.....I learned about windage trays in 1982 when I campagned a 340 powered van that in street trim ran 12.90s N/A
    here is an excert from an 80's tech manual:


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  8. #33
    Ross is gay
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    thank you ring

    guess im not getting either any time soon
    - John
    - I'm 25 and learning <---- ORIGINAL
    - 96 5.9L Black limited, 5", LA's, blacked out, nothing really stock left
    - 98 5.9L Limited Bright Metallic Platinum, 2", some minor performance mods, daily driver duty

    -


    Senior at The Ohio State University - Construction Systems Management

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  9. #34
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackzj52 View Post
    thank you ring

    guess im not getting either any time soon
    ^ I disagree, its not that much and can be done in the driveway in about 3to 4 hours.....you will be removing the starter, oil pan and four main cap bolts, you need wrenches a ratchet and torque wrench....the oil pan gasket are lifetime gaskets, none needed......also check a local Dodge dealership and tell them you want a price on a windage tray for 87 to 88 mag. motor......
    get a print out of the device and exploded view of assembly.......
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  10. #35
    Ross is gay
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    Quote Originally Posted by RINGWRAITH View Post
    ^ I disagree, its not that much and can be done in the driveway in about 3to 4 hours.....you will be removing the starter, oil pan and four main cap bolts, you need wrenches a ratchet and torque wrench....the oil pan gasket are lifetime gaskets, none needed......also check a local Dodge dealership and tell them you want a price on a windage tray for 87 to 88 mag. motor......
    get a print out of the device and exploded view of assembly.......
    Quote Originally Posted by RINGWRAITH View Post
    Whoa! 50,000 questions, 51,000 assumtions!!!!!
    Windage trays came stock on the early magnums.....
    Windage trays will prevent the crank from slapping into the oil cloud.
    Windage trays will not add strength to the bottom end....
    Windage trays and girdles require studs not main cap bolts
    The hughes girdle was "found" to do a good job on windage
    Stroker engines have different geometry, hence different fasteners, usually rods, pistons, cranks, etc.....so there is "extra" machining, clearancing, and fabrication necessary when adding non stock items....
    The girdle was mentioned in this discussion in regards to its windage ability shedding light on the possible horse power gains that can be had by "controling windage"
    Windage trays are commonly called crank scrappers....better use "crank scrapper" in a Google search or product search engine than "windage tray"
    The crank girdle will not prevent crank contact with an oil cloud....
    Oil clouds and oil clinging to the rotating assembly are two forms of "windage"
    Windage trays require main cap studs and washers and nuts to provide the anchoring
    Windage trays ARE a RACERS secret for reliable horse power increase....
    Windage trays are for the cost effective..................:

    Now, Z-Joes and our one Z-Jet.....I learned about windage trays in 1982 when I campagned a 340 powered van that in street trim ran 12.90s N/A
    here is an excert from an 80's tech manual:

    ^^what about that?

    if its just a simple removal of the main cap bolts, bolt up, then torque down and put back together, then yes i can do that easily.
    Last edited by BLACKzj52; 12-07-2009 at 03:52 PM.
    - John
    - I'm 25 and learning <---- ORIGINAL
    - 96 5.9L Black limited, 5", LA's, blacked out, nothing really stock left
    - 98 5.9L Limited Bright Metallic Platinum, 2", some minor performance mods, daily driver duty

    -


    Senior at The Ohio State University - Construction Systems Management

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  11. #36
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    But then again?
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  12. #37
    Ross is gay
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    lol your antics confuse me sometimes

    so do the windtrays need to have the block honed and new studs put in?
    or can i just the the main cap studs that are already there torqued to the proper spec?
    i wont be stroked ANY time soon so I am not really concerned with the strengthening/stiffening part as of now
    - John
    - I'm 25 and learning <---- ORIGINAL
    - 96 5.9L Black limited, 5", LA's, blacked out, nothing really stock left
    - 98 5.9L Limited Bright Metallic Platinum, 2", some minor performance mods, daily driver duty

    -


    Senior at The Ohio State University - Construction Systems Management

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  13. #38
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackzj52 View Post
    lol your antics confuse me sometimes

    so do the windtrays need to have the block honed and new studs put in?
    or can i just the the main cap studs that are already there torqued to the proper spec?
    i wont be stroked ANY time soon so I am not really concerned with the strengthening/stiffening part as of now
    Quote Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
    I did not know that. Wtrays on our motors go on the mains?

    I'm used to thinking of the oilpan sandwich types
    I'm always up for semantics...ha ha get it, some antics?
    yer wearing my ass thin..........................

    honening has nothing to do with the studs or the mains......You can install it by removing one main cap bolt at a time and putting in the stud (dowel) then the nut, then another nut then the tray then another nut........sounds nuts to mee, but..................................SIR, I did advise you to get a print out or exploded view from dealer or PDF from Milodon......

    I cut my toofs on the real McCoy so to speak.


    wish sanwich?
    Last edited by RINGWRAITH; 12-07-2009 at 05:48 PM.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RINGWRAITH View Post
    I'm always up for semantics...ha ha get it, some antics?
    yer wearing my ass thin..........................

    honening has nothing to do with the studs or the mains......You can install it by removing one main cap bolt at a time and putting in the stud (dowel) then the nut, then another nut then the tray then another nut........sounds nuts to mee, but..................................SIR, I did advise you to get a print out or exploded view from dealer or PDF from Milodon......

    I cut my toofs on the real McCoy so to speak.


    wish sanwich?
    it was already that way before i got to ya
    - John
    - I'm 25 and learning <---- ORIGINAL
    - 96 5.9L Black limited, 5", LA's, blacked out, nothing really stock left
    - 98 5.9L Limited Bright Metallic Platinum, 2", some minor performance mods, daily driver duty

    -


    Senior at The Ohio State University - Construction Systems Management

    -

  15. #40
    Member 5.9_Racer's Avatar
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    only the girdle needs a line hone. windage trays are very thin compared to a girdle.... windage trays do not support anything, just shield oil from crank.
    Rarely Active, in case you are looking for me on here.....
    Past: 92 MJ --> 89 XJ --> 99 WJ --> 92 YJ [RIP] --> 98 ZJ [RIP] --> 05 LJ --> 98 ZJ
    Last: Stroker - 410Cu In, SuperCharged '98 ZJ (500hp+) @12.2 - 1/4mile.... she was a blast!!
    Click here for my build thread....Project Fireheadman 6.7L SuperCharged and Stroked

  16. #41
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    post 32, line 4
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  17. #42
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    #018...SCHWARZENKEGGER

    OK...the kegger is on all our V8s.....it was modified as a standard as opposed to the expense of a new M1, or now as opposed to the Hughes version of the Air Gap manifold....

    The primary problem with these intakes is the steel plenum block off plate that expands and contracts differently from the aluminum of the kegger its self......Two solutions here, use a flexible silicone with a new gasket or the Hughes plenum block off plate:

    http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...JlcGFpciBLaXRz

    Ok...if yer gonna modify the kegger for better flow, you have a couple of choices, have Hughes or another vender mod it for you or you mod the kegger UR-self....theres alot written about watt to do........
    First check out Hughes:

    http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...1&partid=23040

    So........here is some pics of my moddified "SchwarzenKegger"

    First I ported the two bores to 52mm, because I was using a ported TB, this can be done with a 51mm hole saw or any number of grinding stones/mandrals.........



    In this pic, the opened up TB is on the stock kegger, note the restriction looking down the TB bores...Remove all that material so there is a smooth transition, no ledges or edges exposed to catch air and cause an air dam...



    The dividerwall modded:
    interior smoothed out, runners shortened.....I took the middle of the road here, somewere around 5/8" left......




    Next came deshrouding the area that restricts the injectors spray pattern:



    Then attention was given to port matching to the Permatex Intake Manifold gasket:



    the exterior was polished, the typical lite sanding and buffing, use a brass wire wheel also......
    Then it got shot with 3 to 4 kotes of Dupi-Mag Clear:




    Then I installed all new pipe nipples, 180* TS, with relief holes drilled, and New Hughes Plenum Repair plate, and cleaned up the injector bosses:








    She...well...he has found a home:


    Last edited by RINGWRAITH; 03-07-2010 at 02:41 PM.
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  18. #43
    Banned Wrinklechops's Avatar
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    Ported kegger worth the work or nearly $500 spent on modifying it? I mean, would it be comparable in power levels to some aftermarket intake manifolds or no?

    More importantly Rick, where did you get that stainless steel radiator hose?!?! AWESOME!

  19. #44
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrinklechops View Post
    Ported kegger worth the work or nearly $500 spent on modifying it? I mean, would it be comparable in power levels to some aftermarket intake manifolds or no?

    More importantly Rick, where did you get that stainless steel radiator hose?!?! AWESOME!
    The ported kegger vs aftermarket intake answer to me lies in two decisions:

    How much u want to spend?
    Watt is ur intended use?

    some schools of thought:
    no money, mod it urself
    plans for big Hp and drag racing.....Hughes Air gap
    No skilz....have Hughes mod it for around 365.00
    Show'in ur engine...mod the interior, power coat the exterior
    Trade up in the future?....You or Hughes mod it then sell it later and get watt ya want...........
    Only doing slight mods? Then do the plate for reliable service and port it ur self...........

    If, yer bored, have skilz, are stupid, don't have a life, like to do things for ur-self and tell the truth about it.......then do watt I did.


    Now that hose I made myself, got new one, got Spectre SS Brade kit, turned up the music, cut myself, installed one kewl rad. hose!
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  20. #45
    Member 5.9_Racer's Avatar
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    Liking the rad hose kit also... but a few notes on the Hughes Air Gap....

    Milan, Collin and I installed Milan's Air Gap this weekend at my place...
    It's a nice intake manifold and it definitely has some advantages over the M1, like the repositioning of the injector ports for a better spray and the dual plane design will be a bonus in all power bands.

    The cons of this intake would be the mounting brackets for the fuel rails, which I think would be eliminated if you went with billet rails... The throttle/tranny kickdown cable bracket had to be grinded to clear a bolt on the throttle body riser, and the accessory bracket had to be grinded just a hair to allow a socket to reach one of the thermostat housing... and the gaskets hughes provides are cork ones, so you are best to reuse your stock ones if you can salvage them.... Oh and the CAI sensor does not come with extra wire to re-route it and the A/C support bracket will not go back on unless you have a skinnier spacer, Hughes seems to supply an enlarged piece of alum pipe, which is larger in diameter than the one on the M1... so it hits the fuel rail not allowing the bolt to not line up.

    Due to a few snags on the install, it took us about 4 hrs... But we were taking our time.
    Rarely Active, in case you are looking for me on here.....
    Past: 92 MJ --> 89 XJ --> 99 WJ --> 92 YJ [RIP] --> 98 ZJ [RIP] --> 05 LJ --> 98 ZJ
    Last: Stroker - 410Cu In, SuperCharged '98 ZJ (500hp+) @12.2 - 1/4mile.... she was a blast!!
    Click here for my build thread....Project Fireheadman 6.7L SuperCharged and Stroked

  21. #46
    registered user Jeepkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RINGWRAITH View Post
    Whoa! 50,000 questions, 51,000 assumtions!!!!!
    Windage trays came stock on the early magnums.....
    Windage trays will prevent the crank from slapping into the oil cloud.
    Windage trays will not add strength to the bottom end....
    Windage trays and girdles require studs not main cap bolts
    The hughes girdle was "found" to do a good job on windage
    Stroker engines have different geometry, hence different fasteners, usually rods, pistons, cranks, etc.....so there is "extra" machining, clearancing, and fabrication necessary when adding non stock items....
    The girdle was mentioned in this discussion in regards to its windage ability shedding light on the possible horse power gains that can be had by "controling windage"
    Windage trays are commonly called crank scrappers....better use "crank scrapper" in a Google search or product search engine than "windage tray"
    The crank girdle will not prevent crank contact with an oil cloud....
    Oil clouds and oil clinging to the rotating assembly are two forms of "windage"
    Windage trays require main cap studs and washers and nuts to provide the anchoring
    Windage trays ARE a RACERS secret for reliable horse power increase....
    Windage trays are for the cost effective..................:

    Now, Z-Joes and our one Z-Jet.....I learned about windage trays in 1982 when I campagned a 340 powered van that in street trim ran 12.90s N/A
    here is an excert from an 80's tech manual:
    Would what this guy has be the windage trays we are looking for

    http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/1557419239.html
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  22. #47
    Member NoTime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.9_Racer View Post
    Liking the rad hose kit also... but a few notes on the Hughes Air Gap....

    Milan, Collin and I installed Milan's Air Gap this weekend at my place...
    It's a nice intake manifold and it definitely has some advantages over the M1, like the repositioning of the injector ports for a better spray and the dual plane design will be a bonus in all power bands.

    The cons of this intake would be the mounting brackets for the fuel rails, which I think would be eliminated if you went with billet rails... The throttle/tranny kickdown cable bracket had to be grinded to clear a bolt on the throttle body riser, and the accessory bracket had to be grinded just a hair to allow a socket to reach one of the thermostat housing... and the gaskets hughes provides are cork ones, so you are best to reuse your stock ones if you can salvage them.... Oh and the CAI sensor does not come with extra wire to re-route it and the A/C support bracket will not go back on unless you have a skinnier spacer, Hughes seems to supply an enlarged piece of alum pipe, which is larger in diameter than the one on the M1... so it hits the fuel rail not allowing the bolt to not line up.

    Due to a few snags on the install, it took us about 4 hrs... But we were taking our time.
    I don't want to derail this thread as Evil has put alot into it,,, but I have purchased the Hughes Air Gap for my build and was wondering if in another thread you guys can show that install and what problems you ran into


    PS ,,,, Evil yep do like the SS rad hose cover but how does it look with the 5.9 fan switchs?
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  23. #48
    yumi meowMix BuckeyeRideR's Avatar
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    I was thinking about modding my kegger, but would rather spend the $100 the plenum plate costs on buying an m1. That brings the m1 does to about $200 and saves me work.

    First thing i noticed was the rad hose,just a cover?
    Captain Nate

  24. #49
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.9_Racer View Post
    Liking the rad hose kit also... but a few notes on the Hughes Air Gap....

    Milan, Collin and I installed Milan's Air Gap this weekend at my place...
    It's a nice intake manifold and it definitely has some advantages over the M1, like the repositioning of the injector ports for a better spray and the dual plane design will be a bonus in all power bands.

    The cons of this intake would be the mounting brackets for the fuel rails, which I think would be eliminated if you went with billet rails... The throttle/tranny kickdown cable bracket had to be grinded to clear a bolt on the throttle body riser, and the accessory bracket had to be grinded just a hair to allow a socket to reach one of the thermostat housing... and the gaskets hughes provides are cork ones, so you are best to reuse your stock ones if you can salvage them.... Oh and the CAI sensor does not come with extra wire to re-route it and the A/C support bracket will not go back on unless you have a skinnier spacer, Hughes seems to supply an enlarged piece of alum pipe, which is larger in diameter than the one on the M1... so it hits the fuel rail not allowing the bolt to not line up.

    Due to a few snags on the install, it took us about 4 hrs... But we were taking our time.
    Hey fire, take pics and do a complete write up so it can be stickied!
    Captain of the Nine

  25. #50
    Last Shadow RINGWRAITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRideR View Post
    I was thinking about modding my kegger, but would rather spend the $100 the plenum plate costs on buying an m1. That brings the m1 does to about $200 and saves me work.

    First thing i noticed was the rad hose,just a cover?
    Man U guys bum my azz right out, I spend countless hours researchin modded keggers( I posted on JU three years ago looking for up to date material and was ridiculed{those that did are on here!} for not searching threads...called a nubee{like who are U?}..etcetcetc) spent time checking 4-sale adds and then modding one, buying one, buyiny an M1 to learn and then did watt I think is an "OK" part to Evil's Corner and all anybody sees is an Elcheapo (goood looking) rad hose!!!!!!!!!!!! I have been doing this many years???/!!!!

    THE REASON IS.....this should be in "How to Customize", IS you see the impact of the Hilborn which is surounded by not so ordinary black accessories, then the braided hose sazzz Hello!

    I'm gonna go sit by the fire and pout.
    Last edited by RINGWRAITH; 01-18-2010 at 01:46 PM.
    Captain of the Nine

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