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  1. #26
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    Okay thanks comp, I'll stick to the 218/222 114lsa from Hughes. For smog I'm going to ask Sean for an e85 tune. Have e85 locally. LSX guys have been passing with e85 tunes with durations around 230. No load test for us here just idle and 2500rpm so I should be okay. Main thing is I need LSA around 114.

    Any other suggestions before I start ordering parts? Thanks again, will post dyno results.

  2. #27
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    If you want to run E85, up-size your injectors a good bit compared to what you need for E0/E10. Might need a bigger fuel pump too.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  3. #28
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    Thanks, yeah I think e85 needs 30-35% more flow but I would only use it to pass smog. So no heavy throttle.

    Do you know of anyone running the 58mm TB with a 5.9? FB says it's only for strokers but I think I would be okay?

  4. #29
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    I'm not sure if anyone has done it, but there's no reason the 58mm wouldn't work. Worst possible outcome from over-sizing a TB is slightly touchy response at light throttle.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  5. #30
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    I've ran my truck on e85, with a bigger cam on stock injectors, if you want to run e85 I highly recommend changing your fuel system

  6. #31
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    I'm starting to freak out a bit. I wanted to keep this build around $3k but I'm getting right up to $4k. I could save $330 by going with Rolfs 53mm TB versus the 58mm FB. How much power would I be giving up?

    With the money saved I'd get some new lifters, stockers have 180k. Still be ahead about $150.

    I'm guessing a failed lifter would cause some serious damage? I would be okay if a rocker arm failed right? Since the valves would just stay shut and the pushrod would just be flopping around?

    I was planning on new hoses, Tstat, waterpump and seals on top of everything. Going to be living off Ramen for a while.
    Last edited by THEhomelessONE; 02-04-2017 at 12:44 PM.

  7. #32
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    Failed lifter would be nasty (could take out the cam or worse), so I'd replace those. Stock rockers would be unlikely to fail, so I'd say those can wait. You can get the smaller TB for now and upgrade later (and sell the smaller one). You'll probably give up somewhere around 15 - 20 hp at high rpm (nothing at lower rpm) with the smaller TB.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  8. #33
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    Thanks Comp, will finish ordering rest of the crap today.

  9. #34
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    Hey was just wondering about the lifters. How am I supposed to measure pushrod length if the new lifters haven't been ran or pumped up yet? Going with the Johnsons Hylift standard replacements from hipotek. Thanks.

  10. #35
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    If you watch them, you can see when they just start to compress a little bit (there's a small spring in them to keep the plungers up). Find the 0 compression point with the adjustable pushrod and then add the desired preload to that to determine length.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  11. #36
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    Okay thanks, sounds easy enough. I still haven't ordered the cam. Keep going back and forth.

    In that Hotrod article, they used a 230/234 501/513 lift cam with stock EQ heads and bottom end. Still made over 400tq from 3k rpm and stayed above 385hp from 5k to 6k. So the 218/224 cam I've been looking at is making me think it won't be enough.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEhomelessONE View Post
    In that Hotrod article, they used a 230/234 501/513 lift cam with stock EQ heads and bottom end. Still made over 400tq from 3k rpm and stayed above 385hp from 5k to 6k. So the 218/224 cam I've been looking at is making me think it won't be enough.
    What intake manifold and throttle body were they using? If they were using a carb, you'll probably make a bit more power (you can use a TB that flows more than the carb they had). Keep in mind, going bigger than the cam you're looking at will start to give up a good bit of driveability (it'll get much rougher at low rpm, need a higher idle, less low end power, etc.) and will be likely to need a higher stall torque converter.

    Plus, with the wimpy stock compression, the gains from a huge cam are limited anyway. You get to a point where you gain a little up top but lose a on the low end by going bigger (and midrange may get hurt too).
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  13. #38
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    They used a 950 carb and air gap intake. I think my compression should be closer to 9.5 with the thinner gaskets. Yeah 230 cam seems like too much compared to what anyone else runs but what do you think between a 218/224 and 224/230 cam? The TB and 4bbl m1 are making me think a larger cam would be better but I don't know.

  14. #39
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    I'd stick with the 218/224. Your M1 flows better than an airgap, so it'll make a little more power if everything else is the same. Keep in mind, 300hp is possible with stock heads / cam, so... IIRC, the thinner gaskets get you somewhere in the 9.3 - 9.5 range for compression. I've got the thin gaskets and shaved heads (60 cc chambers), which puts me at 9.5 - 9.7.

    You should have no problem getting 400hp out of the setup you're planning, IMO. Once I get a 4bbl TB on mine, I'd like to see around 300whp with my tiny cam, which would be around 370 at the crank.

    Within the limits of the stock bottom end and without boost, it's not worth chasing every last peak hp, as the last few will come at a cost of a much narrower powerband (and may lead to a slower Jeep unless you run a very high stall converter).
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  15. #40
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    Okay thanks Comp, I'll stick with the 218 cam. Only have the cam, lifters and TB left to order.

  16. #41
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    Recommendations on a pushrod length checker? Comp 7905-1 pushrod checker sound good? About $18 on Amazon. Hughes wants $11 to ship me a single ****ing pushrod so not sure where to look now lol.

  17. #42
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    The comp one should be fine. Doesn't matter too much which one you get as long as it's the correct length range (assume that your length will be somewhat close to stock).
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  18. #43
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    Hey can you believe I STILL haven't chose a cam? Lol well I'm thinking a 210/220 .566"/.578"@1.7 110LSA cam would be better now. Looking at some youtube videos it looked like most didn't pick up til around 3-3.5k. Tried camquest and it gave me better numbers with lower duration cams.

    I want to go with 110LSA but I'm afraid of getting misfire codes come smog time. Read SCT can disable the check light but codes would still be stored. Should JUST be okay with sniffer since id be around -5 overlap, but would use an e85 tune to be safe. Only HC and CO for AWD in CA. But any code or monitors not ready is an instant fail. (They still take your money of course).

    I'd gain around 15hp/10tq AVG with 110 vs 114. The gap closes up when the 114 can is 4deg retarded but 112lsa is only a couple hp down from 110 so makes sense to go with 112 installed straight up. Opinions?
    Last edited by THEhomelessONE; 02-26-2017 at 06:36 PM.

  19. #44
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    SCT can make the misfire testing less sensitive at low rpm. 112 or 114 LSA will give a wider powerband in a lot of cases, but it'll vary depending on the cam and what intake centerline you install at.

    The bigger cams will pick up later in the RPM range, but you can help that out a bit with higher compression.

    Also, most states allow 1 or 2 monitors not set (but not failed and no codes) on early OBDII vehicles. Not sure about CA though.

    The 210/220 might work well, but with headers, I'm not sure that big an intake / exhaust split is really needed. Something like a 212/218 might make a hair more power and would behave similarly.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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