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  1. #1
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    98 BMW M3 vs. 98 5.9 Limited

    Came across a funny story about a 98 M3 racing a niner. When the M3 driver posted on an M3 forum asking for help, the really funny part starts when the shaming by his fellow M3 enthusiasts begins:
    http://m3forum.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000258.html

  2. #2
    Member xaza's Avatar
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    Too dumb to even begin. Racing on the street, drunk
    We do not remember days, we remember moments.

    Cesare Pavese

  3. #3
    RallyJeep GO
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    The M3 should be a bit faster... Funny enough, I did take one of these to the 1/8 on a drag strip... Then we went to figure out what was wrong with the guy's car and/or driving technique
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    The M3 should be a bit faster in theory... maybe, or maybe not. 4wd is a huge advantage off the line. Spinning the rear wheels won't shift weight to the rear, so it might take a long time to hook up. Even with a skilled driver it takes time and wasted power to hook up, meanwhile 4WD puts all the torque to the road... and the 5.9 has 50% more torque (345 ft-lbs vs. 236), and a little more peak HP (255 vs. 240), so even though the M3 has a half ton weight advantage, it's no surprise the 5.9 will win 0-60 or 1/8 mile, 4WD or not. The M3 would need to shed another 300 lbs to match a niner off the line, if it had 4WD. The M3 is not made for the drag strip or boat towing! A road track would be a different story. I just thought it was hilarious to see the BMW fanboys blaming their blindsided mate for being drunk, a bad driver, or both!

  5. #5
    RallyJeep GO
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    I was in 2wd when I ran one. A quick google says mid to low 14s in the 1/4 for a later us-spec E36 (like the one in the original link), so with a good driver and good tires, it should be able to take a stock niner (although the niner might get a jump right off the line).
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    It's no surprise the M3 would win the 1/4 mile - it isn't the same as 0-60 or 1/8 mile... wind resistance starts to become a significant factor at higher speeds of the longer distance, so the higher horsepower/frontal area ratio of the M3 changes the equation in the 1/4 mile, and the higher revving M3 has more time to take advantage of staying in low gears longer (even if it's not spinning its tires!). Off the line is all about traction and weight/torque ratio, and the 5.9's 12 pounds per ft-lbs torque beats the 13 pounds per ft-lbs of the M3 at least through 1st gear (regardless of traction), and part of 2nd, which is all you need for 0-60 or 1/8th mile. I don't think it was a fluke that you beat one in the 1/8 mile, or that the poor drunk M3 driver got beaten by a niner 0-60. With a good driver it might have been close for shorter races by the numbers, but I think 4WD gives the niner the edge.
    We're talking factory stock on both here - start modifying and all bets are off!

  7. #7
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    Comparing the torque to weight of each is irrelevant, as it doesn't account for gearing. The M3 has a much shorter first gear than the niner, so even allowing for converter multiplication, the M3 should be putting more torque to the wheels right off the line.

    The M3 in my case definitely ran slower than it should have overall. If it had run what some people have gotten from a stock one, I would have been seeing taillights.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    I should have known better... I got lazy and didn't bother checking the gear ratios of the M3. I see now its final 2nd gear is just a little taller than niners' 1st. Oh well... we still have 4WD, so there!

  9. #9
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    The niner has some converter multiplication to factor in, being an auto. So the difference isn't as huge as the raw numbers make it look, but it's still there. The niners have a pretty tall overall 1st gear :/
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    I still say with a two-foot 3,000 rpm 4WD launch, he'll see your tail lights before you see his!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlmon View Post
    3,000 rpm 4WD launch
    Not gonna happen with a stock converter, lol. Only brake stalls to ~2300 and even flashing it won't get 3000.

    But in the end, it'll come down to tires. You can certainly spin with a 249 and all seasons on a hard launch. An M3 on sticky summers won't be much, if any worse off. Now, put equivalent tires on both and the Jeep should have an advantage off the line.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    I rounded up for emphasis! And yeah, I've only been able to get mine up to maybe 2400+/- with some FL tire squeal. No fair giving the M3 sticky summers or slicks - stock vs. stock, or I get to put my supercharger and a high stall converter in!

  13. #13
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    The M3 starts out with stickier tires than a niner from the factory anyway, lol.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    goddammit!

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    Gotta remember, the M3 was built as a performance car. The niner was built on the old muscle car philosophy: let's take a random average non-performance vehicle, shove a bigger motor in and change nothing else performance-wise.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    Yeah? Well, let's see how that 'performance' car would do in a boat-towing figure-8 race against a niner.
    Yes, it's a real thing - I've seen it at the Monroe County fairgrounds races, along with school bus races, rollover contests, demolition derbies - all kinds of good redneck car fun. 'Merica!

  17. #17
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    o.O I'm pretty sure they'd both be pretty bad at that, lol. The Jeep would do a little better, but...
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  18. #18
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter if the niner won by an inch or a mile, winning is winning!
    The guy in the m3 was probably granny shifting, not double clutching like he should
    lol
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

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    Looks like we got us a F&F fan over here!
    Just don't learn driving techniques from the movies! - any racer, any real racer, doesn't double-clutch in a drag race!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB-bN-RkJLM

  20. #20
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    eheheh lol
    and remember, if someone asks you :what's the retail on one of those?
    your answer must be: more than you can afford it pal, ZJ!
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

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