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  1. #26
    Eddie MonaDeRio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlmon View Post
    Eddie- yes, but be warned I haven't confirmed either will fit yet, and both will require modification.
    Part of the reason I'm yanking my evap canister today is to test fit a cardboard mock up of the heat exchanger I want to use. It's a tight fit, and I want to make sure it will fit before ordering. With caveat, here's the one I hope will fit http://www.ebay.com/itm/271749324140 . I already know for certain the mounting tabs on the sides would have to be cut off, and a new mounting plate welded on with mounting holes on the front and back instead of the sides. With the evap canister gone, the inlet and outlet fittings will come up through the sheet metal the canister was mounted to, and the water lines will come out the same hole where the evap plumbing was (both below the driver's headlight).


    I haven't bought the intercooler yet either, but the one I want will have to be customized since the inlet is 2" instead of 2.75 (the outlet is correct 3"), so I'm going to have a section of 2.75" tube welded in (I'm not set up to weld aluminum). I might make the new fitting with a built-in clamp so it can clamp directly to the SC outlet instead of using a silicone coupler, since there's not much length or lip on the outlet for a coupler to grab securely. This is the one I'm planning to customize: http://www.ebay.com/itm/250756019963 The nice thing about this one is I believe the length and offset are close to the dimensions of the original Vortech charge tube, with most of the core offset to the passenger side, where there's more room. All the other ones I've seen have the inlet centered on the core, so they can't be installed square. When I have the inlet welded, I'll also have the bypass flange welded on the inlet side and boost limiter bung on the outlet side, and there's lots of room on this intercooler to do it.

    By the way - when you were running without your supercharger recently, what did you run for the accessory belt? I'm going to have to do this after I test fit my SC, brackets and pulleys, and it would be nice to know the correct length belt to have on hand so I can leave the brackets and tensioner in place.
    I'll let you know later. I have the stock size of all pulleys except of steering pump pulley. 5" instead of 6". That's the only one type of the billet aluminum steering pulley I found.
    I keep the spare belt in my trunk just in case.

    I was thinking to install the intercooler but I'm badly need A/C in NYC in the summer time.
    I like this way of the intercooler location. This a picture of the one of SF member.

    DSC_03.jpg
    Last edited by MonaDeRio; 06-01-2015 at 02:20 AM.
    SCT X3. Custom cam. Crane gold race roller rockers. Fully ported 2.02 R/T heads.. Mike Leach Headers. Full 3" cat back exhaust. Custom full return fuel system. Aeromotive 340 in-tank fuel pump. Aeromotive dual port adjustable fuel regulator. Holley 2 x 52mm TB. High stall torque converter 2800 . 24# Bosch Ford Racing injectors. MSD ignition box and coil.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonaDeRio View Post
    I'll let you know later. I have the stock size of all pulleys except of steering pump pulley. 5" instead of 6". That's the only one type of the billet aluminum steering pulley I found.
    I keep the spare belt in my trunk just in case.

    I was thinking to install the intercooler but I'm badly need A/C in NYC in the summer time.
    I like this way of the intercooler location. This a picture of the one of SF member.
    Now that you mention it, I see the hard lines on top of the AC accumulator are an issue... that's what you're talking about, right? It might take rotating the accumulator in its bracket, or moving the bracket, bending that upper line, and/or getting some custom lines for it. Maybe cut both off shorter and attach 90 degree AN fittings. It's hard to tell exactly what's going to be needed until you physically test fit the parts. I'm not willing to give up AC either, and I think there's a way. I think I'll just have to buy the intercooler and just make it work.

  3. #28
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    Maybe I have missed it do the shine in my eye.... but what is your response to the making more pulleys questions?

  4. #29
    Eddie MonaDeRio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlmon View Post
    By the way - when you were running without your supercharger recently, what did you run for the accessory belt? I'm going to have to do this after I test fit my SC, brackets and pulleys, and it would be nice to know the correct length belt to have on hand so I can leave the brackets and tensioner in place.
    Belt without SC with my setup of the pulleys is Gates K070855 or GoodYear 4070884. With stock steering pulley I would run the stock belt.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by carlmon View Post
    By the way - when you were running without your supercharger recently, what did you run for the accessory belt? I'm going to have to do this after I test fit my SC, brackets and pulleys, and it would be nice to know the correct length belt to have on hand so I can leave the brackets and tensioner in place.
    Belt without SC with my setup of the pulleys is Gates K070855 or GoodYear 4070884. With stock steering pulley I would run the stock belt.
    SCT X3. Custom cam. Crane gold race roller rockers. Fully ported 2.02 R/T heads.. Mike Leach Headers. Full 3" cat back exhaust. Custom full return fuel system. Aeromotive 340 in-tank fuel pump. Aeromotive dual port adjustable fuel regulator. Holley 2 x 52mm TB. High stall torque converter 2800 . 24# Bosch Ford Racing injectors. MSD ignition box and coil.

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by x10radsponge View Post
    Maybe I have missed it do the shine in my eye.... but what is your response to the making more pulleys questions?
    See Post 23... sorry for the glare. If there is enough demand to make the bracket CNC after mine are tested for fit with the belt, it just might be cost effective to have the pulleys made. Especially since two pulleys are required for every bracket, it could very well be comparable to buying March pulleys retail - but no promises!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MonaDeRio View Post
    Belt without SC with my setup of the pulleys is Gates K070855 or GoodYear 4070884. With stock steering pulley I would run the stock belt.
    Thanks Eddie. By the way- what is that 5" steering pulley you have?

  6. #31
    Eddie MonaDeRio's Avatar
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    I bought it directly from Jones Racing Products p/n PS-5106-B-5.000" 8 rib

    http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/ps.html

    They engraved 6" instead of 5" on the pulley by mistake

    IMG-20130604-00509.jpg






    Last edited by MonaDeRio; 06-02-2015 at 10:45 PM.
    SCT X3. Custom cam. Crane gold race roller rockers. Fully ported 2.02 R/T heads.. Mike Leach Headers. Full 3" cat back exhaust. Custom full return fuel system. Aeromotive 340 in-tank fuel pump. Aeromotive dual port adjustable fuel regulator. Holley 2 x 52mm TB. High stall torque converter 2800 . 24# Bosch Ford Racing injectors. MSD ignition box and coil.

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  7. #32
    sfn's lonely vajay jay
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonaDeRio View Post
    I bought it directly from Jones Racing Products p/n PS-5106-B-5.000" 8 rib

    http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/ps.html

    They engraved 6" instead of 5" on the pulley by mistake

    IMG-20130604-00509.jpg






    Stupid question, but do you run the same belt listed for S/C and it works for the 5" pulley? Would love to switch from the plastic pulley to this billet one. I also really like your remote reservoir set up, although I see they offer an aluminum mounted reservoir set up as well for their PS pumps. This place is an hour from me, so I should get parts rather quickly haha.
    - Sandy

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoostinChick View Post
    Stupid question, but do you run the same belt listed for S/C and it works for the 5" pulley? Would love to switch from the plastic pulley to this billet one. I also really like your remote reservoir set up, although I see they offer an aluminum mounted reservoir set up as well for their PS pumps. This place is an hour from me, so I should get parts rather quickly haha.
    The math is closest to 1.5" shorter belt, if your current one is a good fit. it's actually 1.6" shorter path. You could choose 2" shorter if there's enough play in the tensioner, which would increase the grip on the drive pulley.
    Link for that mounted aluminum reservoir PS pump? I'm gong a little overboard on the polished aluminum, but too much is never enough!

  9. #34
    Eddie MonaDeRio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoostinChick View Post
    Stupid question, but do you run the same belt listed for S/C and it works for the 5" pulley? Would love to switch from the plastic pulley to this billet one. I also really like your remote reservoir set up, although I see they offer an aluminum mounted reservoir set up as well for their PS pumps. This place is an hour from me, so I should get parts rather quickly haha.
    The size of my belt with SC is one or two steps shorter than Gates K071045. I'll check it out and let you know.
    SCT X3. Custom cam. Crane gold race roller rockers. Fully ported 2.02 R/T heads.. Mike Leach Headers. Full 3" cat back exhaust. Custom full return fuel system. Aeromotive 340 in-tank fuel pump. Aeromotive dual port adjustable fuel regulator. Holley 2 x 52mm TB. High stall torque converter 2800 . 24# Bosch Ford Racing injectors. MSD ignition box and coil.

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  10. #35
    sfn's lonely vajay jay
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlmon View Post
    The math is closest to 1.5" shorter belt, if your current one is a good fit. it's actually 1.6" shorter path. You could choose 2" shorter if there's enough play in the tensioner, which would increase the grip on the drive pulley.
    Link for that mounted aluminum reservoir PS pump? I'm gong a little overboard on the polished aluminum, but too much is never enough!
    It's in the same link/store that MonaDeRio posted from Jone's Racing.
    - Sandy

  11. #36
    Eddie MonaDeRio's Avatar
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    I'm running with SC- Bando 7PK2620 ( the cheapest one). Similar Gates K071031, GoodYear 40701031 and so on. The size is 103.1"

    http://crossbelts.com/serpentine/7ribkseries.html
    SCT X3. Custom cam. Crane gold race roller rockers. Fully ported 2.02 R/T heads.. Mike Leach Headers. Full 3" cat back exhaust. Custom full return fuel system. Aeromotive 340 in-tank fuel pump. Aeromotive dual port adjustable fuel regulator. Holley 2 x 52mm TB. High stall torque converter 2800 . 24# Bosch Ford Racing injectors. MSD ignition box and coil.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonaDeRio View Post
    I'm running with SC- Bando 7PK2620 ( the cheapest one). Similar Gates K071031, GoodYear 40701031 and so on. The size is 103.1"
    1.5" shorter... yeah! - my math worked out! That gives me hope that I calculated my wrapping pulley sizes correctly without being able to take any direct measurements! After all that work it would sure suck if I couldn't get a belt to fit.

  13. #38
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    Very close to my install stage 1 - looking for any advice, tips, or tricks to watch out for. Installing:
    M1 2bbl
    HS roller rockers
    52mm TB (stock modified)
    Valve covers

    I have the install instructions for the RR's, and the intake factory bulletin with torquing procedure (actually for doing the pan gasket repair), so I'm looking for experience tips that aren't included in the oversimplified instructions.
    I got the Felpro gasket set for the intake. I've heard oil leaks from the two-part end gaskets are common... any suggestions there?
    The RR's seem almost too easy, which scares me. Anyone think I should replace the push rods at the same time?
    Are the valve cover gaskets really as reusable as they say... 17 years old?

  14. #39
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    Did some extra modification to my already modified 52mm TB to prep it for supercharging.
    First, with the radius added to the top of each bore meant the bolts could not seat flush, leaving four holes where pressurized air could escape, robbing boost - so I counterbored each hole so the button heads could seal, and also be more flush.
    Second, I'm using a spacer under the air hat with o-ring seals, so I needed a smooth surface on the TB for a good seal- so I chucked the TB on my lathe and cut a smooth and flat groove. It also provides a notch to precisely center the spacer and air hat. It always bugged me that any air hat could move around almost enough to overhang the TB edge.
    TB3.jpg
    Third, I went to work on the butterfly shaft. Got some button head screws (#8x1/4 36 TPI) that are lower profile and shorter than the stock screws, milled the shaft thickness down from 10mm to 4.8mm, shaped the profile for a more aero shape, and counterbored the button head screws to minimize the profile. Ended up having to grind the screws down about 1/8" to get them flush. I left the shaft full diameter in the narrow division between the bores, and outside the bores to maintain enough strength under pressure... hopefully! With just 10 psi of boost, there could be over 60 pounds of force on those butterflies! I hadn't considered how much force there could be before I went grind happy on the shaft... I should probably do some load testing to see what happens before installing.
    TB1.jpgTB2.jpg
    I was curious what the difference would be for airflow, so I did some calculations, and the results are surprising: The open area of two 52mm bores is 4247mm^2, less the shaft area 1040mm^2 (10mm x 52mm x 2), for a total clear bore of 3207mm^2. Compare this to my 4.8mm wide shaft, with an area just under 500mm^2, and I have a clear bore of 3747mm^2... that's 17% more open area - that's comparable to a 56mm TB with a standard shaft! Air flow should be 37% higher, and that's ignoring any benefit to having a better aero shape, which is even more important under boost. It should flow better than a 56mm TB with a standard shaft, as long as it stays in one piece.

    Next task is to make some kind of bracket to bolt the air hat to. It has to be pretty strong to prevent hat lift under boost, so the bent rod won't suffice.

  15. #40
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    What is the mount, Renzini? It is stout. Also Evils thread shows it done with a drawer handle.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by x10radsponge View Post
    What is the mount, Renzini? It is stout. Also Evils thread shows it done with a drawer handle.
    Ah, yes... the RENZONI mount, from F&B. I forgot about that one. It's pretty reasonable at $32, but I'm going to fabricate my own to maximize the limited space around the bores under our short airhats.
    Incidentally, I noticed F&B 'radically' profiles their TB shafts something like what I did. Elsewhere (can't remember where) I saw a TB with half the shaft removed, so the butterflies screwed straight to the bottom shaft... while that would be good for air flow, I think it would compromise the strength too much for boosted applications.

  17. #42
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    Got some more pieces prepped and planned to be SC ready, including the PCV catch-can system.
    Here's my supercharger TB hat before:
    P1012587.jpg
    And after:
    P1012590.jpg
    ... after about 10 hours of stripping, sanding and polishing.

    Here are my valve covers, sporting polished aluminum oil caps, breather and PCV, and wire separators, all from Billet Specialties:
    P1012593.jpg
    These bits are going to go nicely with those domed supercharger pulleys I made, for a very clean look.

    If you're not interested in catch cans, you might want to skip this next wordy and boring part.

    I did some research into catch can system design for blow-through superchargers, and it's slightly challenging to do it right. The factory PCV system draws air in the driver side valve cover vent, down through the oil drain holes, into the crank case, up the passenger side, out the PCV valve and pulled into the intake manifold under vacuum. The most simple catch can systems just gets plumbed in between the PCV valve and the intake manifold, or the air intake tube, or just vented to air... but there are problems with all of these options with supercharging.
    If it vents to the intake manifold there are two problems. First, it only has positive ventilation when the intake is not charged, which means that when the throttle plates are open and the intake pressurized, there is no vacuum drawing the blow-by out of the crank case, right when you need it most. It's exacerbated by the second problem - the PCV valve is not designed to completely block back-flow, so when you're under boost some of the boost pressure can actually increase the crank case pressure through the PCV valve, forcing reverse flow out the breather. This can be prevented with a check valve, but the original problem of inadequate ventilation when most needed remains.
    If it vents to the supercharger air intake tube, the vacuum is never as strong as it is in the intake manifold when the throttle plates close, so the positive ventilation is weak, but always there to some degree.
    If it vents to air, there is never any positive ventilation. The only ventilation comes from the blow-by pressure expanding out the only hole it has, so at low power and low blow-by the gasses just stew in the crank case, mixing with and crudding your oil. Obviously, this is not the best situation. Catch cans with the cute little air filters were really designed for use with an electric vacuum pump (which are expensive!), but many don't realize that without that vacuum the crank case blow-by gasses are NEVER replaced with fresh air, and the catch can will actually catch very little because most of the pressurized gasses go out the path of least resistance - escaping out the breather - so the air-vent catch can is really useless without a vacuum pump, and does more harm than good. An extra valve cover breather is much cheaper and would vent much better, but you would end up spraying oil on your valve covers at high boost.... but you're getting that anyway if you're running this system. Trying this with two catch cans is even worse because the vent path is even more restricted.

    So... the less than perfect, but best option (short of buying an electric vacuum pump, which would actually the best), is a combination of venting the catch can to intake manifold and venting to air intake tube. This requires two separate check valves, one to prevent a charged intake manifold from pressurizing the catch can, and one to prevent the higher vacuum of the intake manifold from pulling air from the intake tube instead of the PCV valve. This design does not require a check valve in between the catch can and the PCV valve. The result is you get the full benefit of high vacuum ventilation from the intake manifold when off boost, and lower vacuum from the air intake tube when you're into it... but constant positive crankcase ventilation, boost or no boost. And of course you need a good catch can that will catch all the oil droplets, because you don't want them getting in your cylinders causing detonation.

    Hence the apparently relatively standard setup on my valve covers, with a filtered air intake vent on one side, and PCV valve outlet vent on the other. PCV will be plumbed to catch can, catch can plumbed to both the intake manifold and to air intake tube with check valves for each. It's actually really simple, but I think most just use a system designed for NA motors because it's 'good enough'.
    Last edited by carlmon; 04-28-2016 at 11:47 AM.

  18. #43
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    damn, that looks clean
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    damn, that looks clean
    Thanks Mark! - I definitely got the clean motor bug. I'm beginning to understand why John Z88Z spent a ludicrous amount of time rerouting wiring and hiding components. One thing I haven't shown yet is that I removed the vacuum nipples from the intake manifold, welded the holes closed, and ground and polished those raised flat areas to follow the contours of the runners (yes... I know I have a problem!). Instead of the side nipples, I made a vacuum tree that sticks out the back of the manifold where you can't see it, so all the vacuum tubes go straight back to the firewall out of sight.
    Look Ma! - no vacuum holes!
    P1012575.jpg
    Wish I could make my AC invisible because it's responsible for more engine clutter than anything else, but I'm not going to give it up. I'm just going to try to make what's there look as clean and good as possible.

  20. #45
    Eddie MonaDeRio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlmon View Post
    Thanks Mark! - I definitely got the clean motor bug. I'm beginning to understand why John Z88Z spent a ludicrous amount of time rerouting wiring and hiding components. One thing I haven't shown yet is that I removed the vacuum nipples from the intake manifold, welded the holes closed, and ground and polished those raised flat areas to follow the contours of the runners (yes... I know I have a problem!). Instead of the side nipples, I made a vacuum tree that sticks out the back of the manifold where you can't see it, so all the vacuum tubes go straight back to the firewall out of sight.
    Look Ma! - no vacuum holes!
    P1012575.jpg
    Wish I could make my AC invisible because it's responsible for more engine clutter than anything else, but I'm not going to give it up. I'm just going to try to make what's there look as clean and good as possible.
    Show the other side plz
    SCT X3. Custom cam. Crane gold race roller rockers. Fully ported 2.02 R/T heads.. Mike Leach Headers. Full 3" cat back exhaust. Custom full return fuel system. Aeromotive 340 in-tank fuel pump. Aeromotive dual port adjustable fuel regulator. Holley 2 x 52mm TB. High stall torque converter 2800 . 24# Bosch Ford Racing injectors. MSD ignition box and coil.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonaDeRio View Post
    Show the other side plz
    Don't have a photo of the other side yet (kinda looks the same... no holes, smooth 'round the bend, and shiny!), but here's a shot of the unfinished vacuum tree. Aluminum nipples will be welded in place, or maybe just epoxied if I'm lazy. I have extra ports in there for a blow-off valve, boost gauge, and rear-mounted 2-bar MAP sensor (maybe). The nipples are angled back, so when it's all in place with the hat on top you'll need a mirror to see the spaghetti, if you're not already blinded by the glare.
    P1012595.jpg
    And here's a before photo with nipples removed, but holes still there so you can see how hideous it was. You might want to grab a bucket before opening the full-sized photo.
    P1012536.jpg
    That raised flat area is now a smooth curve that looks like beautiful sculpture, instead of vomitous repugnance. Of course it will be all but hidden by the fuel rails, but I'll know it's there! This pic also shows the heat shielding blanket I made for the valley cover - I removed it temporarily for the filling, grinding and polishing work, so it's not in the newer photos.
    Also, note the smooth arcs at the top of the accessory mounting post reinforcement tabs - those are straight and nausea-inducing out of the box, now they are curvaceous and sensuous.
    I know it looks like all I've done is polish aluminum, and it feels that way sometimes (like today, I'm re-polishing the valve covers because the oil caps and vents were noticeably shinier), but I have also been busy on behind-the-scenes functional preparations for the supercharger that remain to be disclosed. And once in a while I go to work too!
    Last edited by carlmon; 08-20-2015 at 11:27 AM.

  22. #47
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    Got my new supercharger intake tube today direct from Vortech. I hadn't realized they still made this because it hadn't crossed my mind these are universal for Vortech chargers, so weren't discontinued when they stopped making our kits. One more problem solved! Not the smoothest casting... this thing's going to take me all day (or two) to polish:
    P1012596.jpgP1012597.jpg

    Also, I'm working on the bracket for the extra supercharger pulley. Gotta be pretty tricky with dial indicators on an analog mill to simulate CNC work. Pulled it to flip for milling on the other side, so thought I'd take some progress shots before mounting it back up:
    P1012601.jpgP1012602.jpg

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    You sure are creative, really like everything so far and can't wait to see this done!

  24. #49
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Wow, this is coming along nicely!

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    I just had a major setback in my installation schedule.
    IMG_20150825_163536031.jpgIMG_20150825_163612724.jpg
    Now I'm going to have to port my intake, get a custom cam, push rods, adjustable RR's, sell my HS RR's I never installed, work on the combustion chambers, and a dozen other things I haven't thought of yet in this new can of worms.
    On the bright side, I'll be shaving about 90 pounds off the front end.
    Last edited by carlmon; 08-28-2015 at 01:25 PM.

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