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  1. #1
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
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    Did some upgrades this past weekend

    Did some upgrades to the ZJ. 300mm Australian brake kit, Addco sway bar (minus their rigged setup for the later swaybar links), replaced the leaking steering stabilizer and adjusted the steering box. I've been holding on to the kit for a while and since the brake pad rails were worn and causing problems it was the perfect time to install it.







    While the pads aren't bedded in 100% it still stops much quicker than the stock setup even with good pads. The front Addco is a decent improvement but I still might get the rear bard as well. For some reason my 97 has quite a bit more body roll than my 95 did.
    Last edited by SilverXJ; 05-01-2015 at 08:09 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Nice setup!

    Just looked that up. Did you get them from the ebay vendor?

    No more annoying divots for the pads to catch on. Great idea! Are the rotors offset differently? - looks like it's spaced further out from the backing plate.

  3. #3
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
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    I imported a bunch of kits from Australia back in 2006. But, yes it was from the eBay vendor. I got two for myself. One is on the XJ and one is now on the ZJ. This kit had been sitting around since 2006.

    The rotor is spaced further out. I actually found some caliper brackets on ebay Australia that would let me run 330mm rotors instead.

    The divits on these knuckles were pretty bad. One side was cocking the pad which eventually caused a grinding noise and uneven pad wear. At the time I was running Raybestos semi-metallic Advanced Technology which worked really well for the stock brakes. I had to replace them due to the cocking and went with Wearever Silver pads as I wanted something cheap as I had to do something about the knuckles... they were crap. Mushy pedal and horrible stopping.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverXJ View Post
    I actually found some caliper brackets on ebay Australia that would let me run 330mm rotors instead.
    Link please! Big brakes are in line right after my SC install. Only know of Vanco for 330mm rotors so far. Searched ebay au, but failed.

  5. #5
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
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    My mistake. Its only 322mm http://www.ebay.com/itm/281673789972 But you need the above brake kit to begin with. Also, the company that made my kit use to offer 330mm kit.. might want to check with them as well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverXJ View Post
    My mistake. Its only 322mm http://www.ebay.com/itm/281673789972 But you need the above brake kit to begin with. Also, the company that made my kit use to offer 330mm kit.. might want to check with them as well.
    Looks like they're out of town until later this month... I'll ask them if they have the 330 kit available. It's probably more economical to get the proper kit than piece one together, buying brackets and rotors separately. The Vanco 330 kit is about $1500, so it would probably save a few hundred either way... but I'm wondering if there are advantages of the Vanco hardware design over this Aussie one.

  7. #7
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
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    i'm not seeing a 330mm $1500 kit on Vanco's site.. link? I can only find the 15" and 16" wheel kits.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverXJ View Post
    i'm not seeing a 330mm $1500 kit on Vanco's site.. link? I can only find the 15" and 16" wheel kits.
    http://www.shop.blackmagicbrakes.com...er-BBK-O17.htm

  9. #9
    sfn's lonely vajay jay
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    Something is not clicking to me...if the kit posted above is the knuckle and a bracket, why can't someone make a bracket to adapt to the stock ZJ knuckle to fit larger brake calipers/rotors?
    - Sandy

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoostinChick View Post
    Something is not clicking to me...if the kit posted above is the knuckle and a bracket, why can't someone make a bracket to adapt to the stock ZJ knuckle to fit larger brake calipers/rotors?
    ZJ knuckles would have to be cut and modified to fit a larger disk because the pad sliders are cast into our knuckles, and limit the upper diameter of the disk. The kit are not stock ZJ knuckles, but are made to fit.

  11. #11
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlmon View Post
    ZJ knuckles would have to be cut and modified to fit a larger disk because the pad sliders are cast into our knuckles, and limit the upper diameter of the disk. The kit are not stock ZJ knuckles, but are made to fit.
    That is exactly what the kit I have does. Cut the stock knuckles.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoostinChick View Post
    Something is not clicking to me...if the kit posted above is the knuckle and a bracket, why can't someone make a bracket to adapt to the stock ZJ knuckle to fit larger brake calipers/rotors?
    The stock knuckle itself is what causes crappy braking. It flexes too much to clamp enough
    Last edited by MurdaJ; 05-04-2015 at 10:29 AM.

  13. #13
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
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    The crappy brakes is what causes the crappy braking.

  14. #14
    RallyJeep GO
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurdaJ View Post
    The stock knuckle itself is what causes crappy braking. It flexes too much to clamp enough
    The flex is mostly due to the rubber slide pin bushings in the stock calipers. They flex a lot, limiting braking power and causing crappy pedal feel.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy 2.02 heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    The flex is mostly due to the rubber slide pin bushings in the stock calipers. They flex a lot, limiting braking power and causing crappy pedal feel.
    I see, so larger calipers have bigger slide pins and wider mounting, both helping to resist flexing.

    But the vanco knuckle is touted as being more rigid than the stock knuckle, right?

  16. #16
    RallyJeep GO
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    Not sure how much better feeling the Vanco calipers are, honestly. Even with the same amount of flex, they could generate more force, as they have more piston and pad area to clamp with. Most good aftermarket calipers use better slide pin bushings to reduce flex.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy 2.02 heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  17. #17
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
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    I don't have experience with the Vanco kits, but I know with the kits I have the mushy pedal feeling is gone.

    Pad compound also has a major role in pedal feel.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    The flex is mostly due to the rubber slide pin bushings in the stock calipers. They flex a lot, limiting braking power and causing crappy pedal feel.
    This doesn't really make sense to me - none of the compressive force goes through the knuckles or bushings, so that shouldn't affect the feel of the brakes. If you took the caliper off the Jeep, put a metal block between the pads and hit the brakes the pedal would feel exactly the same, without the bushings being attached to anything. The caliper takes all the hydraulic compressive load from both pads.
    The problem is the tiny calipers and undersized rotors (especially for a niner). The pads do make a difference in feel too, and brake lines to a lesser extent.
    Larger pistons take less pressure to do more braking, so have tighter pedal feel since you never have to push as hard. Obviously, larger pads will compress less. Add the additional torque of a larger rotor, and it's pretty easy to double the braking power with the same pedal force.

  19. #19
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    Think about the rotational force trying of the rotor pulling on the caliper, the knuckle and/or slide bushings would be forced to deflect if the force was high enough. That deflection would change the caliper/rotor relationship, they wouldn't be aligned and the pads would be contacting the rotor at an angle which would change depending on how much flex was happening.

  20. #20
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
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    The rotor is not trying to rotate the caliper. The caliper sees very little rotational force if any. Many be a minute amount before the pads take up the slack in their mounting. What is seeing rotational force are the brake pads, which are secured by the pad rails on the knuckle. The only force the caliper is really seeing is the force from clamping the pads against the rotor.

    Especially for the niner? It has the same handling characteristics and weight as any other V8 ZJ. Brakes aren't working against acceleration.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverXJ View Post
    The rotor is not trying to rotate the caliper. The caliper sees very little rotational force if any. Many be a minute amount before the pads take up the slack in their mounting. What is seeing rotational force are the brake pads, which are secured by the pad rails on the knuckle. The only force the caliper is really seeing is the force from clamping the pads against the rotor.

    Especially for the niner? It has the same handling characteristics and weight as any other V8 ZJ. Brakes aren't working against acceleration.
    Yabut... you can get into more trouble faster in a niner, so need to stop faster too. Increase the Delta-V in the F=M x Delta-V equation, and you need more braking force. Brakes have to balance power in addition to weight not because you're two-foot braking, but because race Jeep! You don't see motorcycles with tiny brakes. My 450lb VFR has dual piston calipers and bigger disks than my 4200lb niner, and sometimes it's not enough!

    You're exactly correct - there's no rotational force on the caliper - it's designed to float - it just does the squeezing. The pads and knuckles take all the rotational force.

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