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Thread: autocross

  1. #1
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    autocross

    Hi guys,
    on sunday 19 oct there is a car meeting with an autocross track.
    I was thinking to get in.
    I just do not wanna roll over
    any advices?
    should i run in 2wd?
    should i run i 1st gear?
    thanks

    edit: car has a 2" ome hd lift. on the front i'm running 16x7.5 with et=0 with new tires, in the rear i'm running stock 16x7 with et=25 with worn out tires.
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 10-14-2014 at 08:30 AM.
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
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  2. #2
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    guys, little help?
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  3. #3
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Rob/comptiger does some road racing.

    It's not quite autocross but it's probably about the closest of anyone on here. Maybe shoot him a pm and see if he'll post here.


    I'd be a bit leery of autocross myself, with the tight fast turns and all. Obviously your lift is going to work against you. Lowered would be way better for this kind of thing.

    As far as what gear. 1st might be good for some parts but I don't think the Jeep is going to like staying in 1st for too long.


    That's all just my opinion. I don't have any facts cuz I haven't heard of too many people trying this.

    I believe some of the people that did spec drags ( like Marty/supershafts) did a bunch of suspension mods to tighten it up but I could be wrong

  4. #4
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    ok thanks, i'll send him a pm.

    yes lowered would be good, but i really can't stand lowered jeeps, sorry guys nothing personal
    i just don't want to rollover...

    i tought first gear would be good. Why the Jeep does not like to stay in 1st gear?
    i tought: 1st gear= no shifting....and no shifting=good beacuse i do not use any clutches.
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  5. #5
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    I was thinking more about heat buildup.

    Might not be too bad if you have an additional trans cooler installed inline, or you might even want to go with one of those Derale type coolers that has it's own fan.


    I'm really not that familiar with the subject, just throwing out what thoughts came to mind.

    I'm also a leery of doing sharp turns in a lifted Jeep but again, that's just my two cents. I'm hoping others will weigh in on this hopefully with more applicable knowledge on the subject

  6. #6
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    that's ok, tomorrow i'll let you know how it goes lol
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  7. #7
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    ok autcross degenerated in random drift 'n donuts
    here a small video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cQd...ature=youtu.be
    a proper video will follow
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  8. #8
    Member NoTime's Avatar
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    You did ok,, once you got the hang of it. Watch out for those Corvettes
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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    hi guys...in that event i almost destroyed the rear tires. There is minimal depth left, you can see the filaments.
    Is it safe to do some other donuts to finish them? do i risk to roll over if a tire explode during a donut?
    thanks
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  11. #11
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    hi guys...in that event i almost destroyed the rear tires. There is minimal depth left, you can see the filaments.
    Is it safe to do some other donuts to finish them? do i risk to roll over if a tire explode during a donut?
    thanks
    little help guys?
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  12. #12
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    hi guys...in that event i almost destroyed the rear tires. There is minimal depth left, you can see the filaments.
    Is it safe to do some other donuts to finish them? do i risk to roll over if a tire explode during a donut?
    thanks
    I wouldn't do it.

    If you're doing a straight line burnout the most you risk is maybe embarrassment (and possible wheel damage)

    If you're doing a donut and the outer tire pops while it's under load - ya, you might be looking at things upside down. Not worth the risk

  13. #13
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    ok thanks, that's what i supposed...ižll burn them untill they explode
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

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    Mark- I can see why it degenerated into donuts... those Corvette guys can't drive!
    Years... no, decades ago, my second car was a BMW 2002 with a Chevy V8 shoe-horned inside the engine bay (mostly). I moved the battery to the trunk to offset the woefully nose-heavy balance (like that would do it!), but it could still donut all day in any gear. Turned out though, weight over the front wheels was a good thing in an autocross, as I cleaned up at one sponsored by the local Corvette club, with every one of my runs faster than the next fastest car... which wasn't a 'vette either!
    That first day the outside front tire was scrubbing so hard on the fender well on every turn that I had to load passengers in the back seat and stay on the gas to shift the weight back... so I had added spring spacers in the front to fix the scubbing for the next autocross, but never got to test it. When I showed up the next month they made it Corvettes only Needless to say, I left in a cloud of 3-gear smoke.

    What fun! Your adventure inspired me to consider trying the same thing with my soon-to-be supercharged niner.

    Next time you might want to try it with the front drive shaft back in. It might be hard on the TC, but in spite of adding understeer it will perform much better in the tight corners of autocross. Here's an explanation of the 4WD handling benefits in performance driving: http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ing/Index.html click on "RWD versus 4WD - which is better?" under "steering".

    There are several pages in the same section about handling and suspension setup, and it is the best and most clearly explained technical pages I've found. Many people know rules of thumb to correct handling issues, but not why - understanding why, and knowing all the factors gives you more options to setup your handling.

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    thanks so much for the infos.
    link is very usefull.
    i have a 242 selec so i can put 4full next time, but i'm worried about stressing the drivetrain too much...
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

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    Sure, there's more stress, but any turn in 4wd on dry pavement is stress. You're not going to wear out the coupler in a few autocross runs, and that extra stress is what gives extra cornering performance... not to mention better launch without wheelspin.
    4WD performance driving is much different from RWD too... not only can it hold more speed through turns, but you also need to use more power during the turn than you could in RWD to shift some of that 4WD understeer to oversteer - it's a bit unsettling and counter-intuitive because you're probably used to slowing to counteract understeer, but more power in 4WD means power shift to the rear wheels = more oversteer to balance understeer. Try it! - the worst that will happen is a few cones toppled. When you get it right it will feel like you don't have very good grip in the corner in the front or rear, but still hold the corner with much faster speed from entry to exit.

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    all right, thanks for the advices,
    next event i'll try 4 full.
    not very happy about rollin over tough...lol
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

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    Well, I've never raced autocross in a Jeep, much less one with 2" lift, so I can't make any promises on the rollover option, though at autocross speeds I don't think it's likely... but if the horizon starts looking crooked the worst thing you could do is hit the brakes... just turn out and sacrifice some cones.
    Your advantage over those 'vettes is the ability to put torque to the ground, off the line and accelerating out of turns after the apex. Even the 318 has over 300 ft-lbs torque, which is more than a RWD car can use without spinning. The Corvettes' horsepower is irrelevant at autocross speeds, as is their aerodynamics, but their lower CG will give them an edge up to the apex of corners. How fun would it be to beat the Corvettes in a lifted Jeep?! Depending on the course, I don't think it's impossible. I'd sure like to see it!

  19. #19
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    beating the vettes in a lifted jeep would be insane!
    they'd be so angry! ahhaahah
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  20. #20
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Mark, just my two cents but honestly I don't think I'd push it too far, especially with the lift.


    This is an XJ, but watch how quick you can go from lookin' good to lookin' REAL bad.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iApvszPbajo


    Looks pretty stable at first.

    With the lift I think you'd be inherently less stable than this XJ, plus the higher and heavier weight of the V8 probably works against you too.

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    OUCH!- we wouldn't want to see that happen to Mark!
    If you notice, though, that driver made a huge mistake - he went straight from hard right to hard left, which more than doubles the rotational momentum, causing rollover.
    Still... better safe than sorry. Depending on the autocross course, you might not always have room to level between turns.

  22. #22
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    mmm that's not good, not good at all...i wouldn't want to see it happen to me either

    i'm workin on the complete vid of the event, and during a turn you can see my left rear wheel lifting from the ground.
    i'll post it as soon as possible.
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    so, finally, the whole video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecwPlxeEz4
    you can see the tire liftin a little bit from the ground at about 05 seconds (in the beginning)
    tell me what you think

    edit: sorry for the bad quality...
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 12-28-2014 at 02:47 PM.
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  24. #24
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    so, finally, the whole video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecwPlxeEz4
    you can see the tire liftin a little bit from the ground at about 05 seconds (in the beginning)
    tell me what you think

    edit: sorry for the bad quality...
    so guys...any opinions? suggestions? like-dislike?
    98 ZG 318 limited: np 242 swap,dana30hp swap,aussie locker, shift kit, optima red, 170lbs reduction, 5.9 vents, kn air filter, air ram, 1.7 HS RRs, SCT 93 oct tune, magnaflow muffler 12255, magnaflow hi-flo cat, spectre air hat, 2x52mm tb, 5.9 efan swap, ngk fr5-1 plugs, mopar perf wires, new cap 'n rot, maxxperf coil, iat relocation, roof lights, pirelli scorpions on masitaly 16x7 rims ET=0, ome HD coils +2",rubic exp +2"shocks, skyjacker ss, rubic exp adjustable front arms, jks rear+procomp front trackbar, prothane engine n tranny mounts, prothane sway bars bushings, drilled n slotted rotors, aeronautical front brake lines, purple led into front grill, hella h4s 100/55w, osarm h3s 55w.
    my channel
    https://www.youtube.com/TommyVercettism/videos

  25. #25
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    Sorry for the slow response, I haven't been on here much lately. Autocrossing a jeep isn't going to happen, for the most part. I've thought about it, and pretty much any place that runs autocrosses won't allow it. It doesn't meet their width / height criteria. If you threw 1.5" wheel spacers on and slammed it, they'd probably be ok with it, but other than that... Same reason they typically don't let SUVs do track days. Too much risk if a bad driver rolls the thing, they don't want to deal with the insurance liability.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, running in 4wd isn't going to help anything unless you're having serious trouble putting down power out of the corners.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Beating Corvettes isn't going to happen either, there's no way you're going to have enough tire and good enough suspension setup on the Jeep unless you build something like this: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1094822
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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