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  1. #1
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    408 stroker questions and cam help

    I joust got beat by a 2002 acura tl type s in a friendly 1/4 mile by .6 sec and I just cant have that so ive decided to start piecing together a 408 stroker. I already have the simple stuff done. like 2.5" straight though exhaust, K&N drop in and air hat spacer.

    Heres what i have on the list so far:
    -Hughes mid compression 408 stroker kit
    http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...=&partid=26448
    -dough thorley tri y headers
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dt...grand-cherokee
    -holley 52 mm throttle body
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hl...grand-cherokee
    -possibly ac bypass bracket
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rn...iew/make/dodge
    -possibly jet underdrive pulleys
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/je...iew/make/dodge

    Will these work well together? What cam will use the stock top end without machining of the heads? Do I need anything else? I am assuming i will be approaching the 450 hp mark from what ive been reading on other forums and does that mean I need injectors?

    Thanks for helping a newbie.
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  2. #2
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    I would go hipotek over Hughes. I didn't have an issue with the same car....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also TB is too small, you'll want real heads, don't forget intake.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  3. #3
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    I assume your talking about this intake (http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar-Performa...oductId=750418) the aluminum mpi

    Is porting not enough on the stock heads? I was really hoping to use the stock heads.
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  4. #4
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    Stock heads are junk. No one reuses stock heads even if they aren't cracked like 90% are.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  5. #5
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    sweet. well thats just a bunch more money i wasnt planning on spending.

    - - - Updated - - -

    so then i need these things as well

    -hardened push rods
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-9638
    -heads edelbrock im assuming are good
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-61779/overview/make/dodge
    -chevy small block 1.6 3/8" stud rollers
    http://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66929/10002/-1?parentProductId=
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  6. #6
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    Roller rocker ratio depends on cam choice. You'll also need tuning and datalogging. Then you're gonna need trans. Not to mention machining for block. Take your budget and triple it. You'll be close at that. Like I said I didn't have an issue with the same car unt we broke 100mph. I've got M1, 55mm TB, FRP tune, and 3" exhaust.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  7. #7
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    can the 46re be built to 450 hp or do i need to swap out to something else
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  8. #8
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    It can be built to 700+. I know a few guys pushing 6-8 on a 46re.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  9. #9
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    Thank god. Well just to humor myself I put together a word document of the things I should theoretically need.

    Here it is: (I put in some of the stuff i have already done if somebody happens to google this)

    Stage I
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Doug Thorley Tri-Y Headers 630Y-C - $800
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dt...grand-cherokee

    JET Performance Underdrive Pulley Kits 90501 - $180
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/je...iew/make/dodge

    Allstar Performance Air Filter Spacers ALL26085 - $15
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-ALL26085/

    SCT DCX 3200 X3 tuner - $400
    http://www.hemifevertuning.com/SCT_p/sct-can.htm

    However you want to do exhaust - $300

    High flow intake or cold air - $100

    Stage II

    Holley High-Flow EFI Throttle Bodies 112-555 - $420
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hl...grand-cherokee

    Mopar Performance P5007398ABK - $725
    http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar-Performa...oductId=750418

    Stage III

    Hughes mid compression 408 stroker kit - $2000
    http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...=&partid=26448

    Edelbrock Performer RPM Chrysler Magnum Cylinder Heads 61779 - $1600
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...iew/make/dodge

    Edelbrock Classic Cast Aluminum Valve Covers 4177 - $260
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-4177

    Edelbrock Hardened Steel Pushrods 9638 - $60
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-9638

    Proform 66929 - Proform Aluminum Roller Rockers - $190
    http://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66...arentProductId=

    comp cam Xtreme Energy™, XR268HR-10 - $340
    http://www.compperformancegroupstore...de=LACAMRFHRXE

    Prices:
    Stage I - $1795
    Stage II - $1145
    Stage III - $4450

    Total - $7390

    **NOT INCLUDING MACHINE WORK AND/OR LABOR IF YOU ARENT DOING ALL THE WORK YOURSELF**

    - - - Updated - - -

    hows it lookin???????

    - - - Updated - - -

    and of course you would have to get some more serious tuning after stage three was completed
    Last edited by awd4life; 09-15-2014 at 11:29 AM.
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  10. #10
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    Now that you've gotten this far why not check to see what a shop would charge you to do the entire build?

  11. #11
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
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    There's a place that sells 408 long blocks for $6,500, fully assembled with a warranty. Not to mention places like PIE that'll build them any which way you like.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by awd4life View Post
    JET Performance Underdrive Pulley Kits 90501 - $180
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/je...iew/make/dodge


    SCT DCX 3200 X3 tuner - $400
    http://www.hemifevertuning.com/SCT_p/sct-can.htm


    Stage II

    Holley High-Flow EFI Throttle Bodies 112-555 - $420
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hl...grand-cherokee

    and of course you would have to get some more serious tuning after stage three was completed
    forget about hemifever and like I said early Hughes as well. 52mm is too small of a TB. The jet under drive pulley setup may not work depending on 1 or 2 piece crank. I recommend pump the brakes and do some serious research.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On top of thy stage 1 should be exhaust intake and tuning. Then go from there.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  13. #13
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilbullie5.9 View Post
    forget about hemifever and like I said early Hughes as well. 52mm is too small of a TB. The jet under drive pulley setup may not work depending on 1 or 2 piece crank. I recommend pump the brakes and do some serious research.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On top of thy stage 1 should be exhaust intake and tuning. Then go from there.
    the stages were meant specifically for me because i definitely wont be able to afford this all in one go. the items in the stages arent in any particular order i just kinda threw them in randomly. itll probably go something like this. ill do stage one this summer, stage two the next summer etc. thats why i have the hemifever tuning in stage one because i feel like its a wast to have headers without a tune idk.

    as for the stroker kit. what makes you so strongly disapprove of the hughes kit? im not criticizing im just curious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and i did a little looking and couldnt find a bigger throttle body but ill do more looking.
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  14. #14
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    F&B throttle bodies. Hughes is crap and if they mess something up they'll treat you like shit. Do some reading in the Dakota forums you'll see thread after thread of gettin ****ed by Hughes. Hemifever is not the best tunerr. Flyin Ryan iOS current tuning champ. He ha redone about 50 hemifever trucks including our fastest members.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  15. #15
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    so i just buy the sct and contact him?
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  16. #16
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    You can buy everything through him. For what you'll be doing you'll need data logging. Tuning and data logging will run about 800 said and done for custom NA tunes.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  17. #17
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    my buddy is majoring in computer science and im majoring in aerospace so i think i can probably teach myself to tune but if hes really that good i should probably look into it
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  18. #18
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    JTEC is apparently weird and that's why like 3 people tune it and 1 of them is good at it.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  19. #19
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
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    JTECs not weird, it's obscure. And the ProRacer software for it is totally different than the Ford/Chevy versions. And not in an "easier to work with" kinda way.

  20. #20
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    will the low end power i lose from the intake and throttle body install be worth the high end gain? since i will be driving it with just the headers, tune, intake and TB for a year most likely im curious.
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by awd4life View Post
    will the low end power i lose from the intake and throttle body install be worth the high end gain? since i will be driving it with just the headers, tune, intake and TB for a year most likely im curious.
    that whole thing is mostly a myth. I have a bigger TB than any other stock motor jeep and ported my M1 to match. I don't have traction through most of first or the beginning of second. Of course I mean in 2wd mode. The reason people experience that is poor tune or even stock calibration. Shit even another member didn't notice loss of low end without tune.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It just feels that way because of the clear gainz up top. If anything is missing it's below 1100 and how long do you really spend there.
    Last edited by lilbullie5.9; 09-15-2014 at 07:31 PM.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  22. #22
    BALNonAbdgt awd4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilbullie5.9 View Post
    that whole thing is mostly a myth. I have a bigger TB than any other stock motor jeep and ported my M1 to match. I don't have traction through most of first or the beginning of second. Of course I mean in 2wd mode. The reason people experience that is poor tune or even stock calibration. Shit even another member didn't notice loss of low end without tune.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It just feels that way because of the clear gainz up top. If anything is missing it's below 1100 and how long do you really spend there.
    pshhhh i put in 1.73 gears i spend 90% of my time below 1100. jk, thats good to know.
    1998 GC niner - custom 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, K&N drop in
    2004 Volvo S80 AWD 2.5T - Custom 2.25" dual exhaust, Lots of look pretty things (Totaled)
    1998 Cherokee 4.0 - 4.5" RE short arm kit w/bastard packs, too many mods to list (Sold)

  23. #23
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilbullie5.9 View Post
    Stock heads are junk. No one reuses stock heads even if they aren't cracked like 90% are.
    Quote Originally Posted by MexiJeeper View Post
    Now that you've gotten this far why not check to see what a shop would charge you to do the entire build?
    Quote Originally Posted by McCloudsZJ View Post
    There's a place that sells 408 long blocks for $6,500, fully assembled with a warranty. Not to mention places like PIE that'll build them any which way you like.

    I always add the disclaimer that I'm not one of the engine build gurus on here, cuz - well, I'm not


    But, what Tanner said ^

    So this part might be debatable - hopefully others will weigh in and correct me if I'm wrong, but - in terms of bang for your buck you might want to think about reversing your priorities as far as heads versus stroking your motor.

    You do want all the other stuff that was mentioned; headers, exhaust, intake, cam, Ryan tune with datalogging, - but (with < that stuff...) buying a set of worked performance heads should give you a bunch more power right off the bat. Granted, heads aren't exactly cheap, but a lot cheaper than doing the stroker build, and even with the stroker you aren't going to see all the power you could unless you have the heads....

    I'll leave the head and brand recommendations to others, but you could even throw a bit more money at them and get some that are ported and polished or CNC machined for even better flow. Some places may even offer them with those services done. (I'm operating under the impression that even a lot of performance heads aren't maxed out as far as the performance that could be had - but I could be wrong about that part...)

    Our bottom ends are fairly strong so you should be good for a while. That gives you time to save up for the stroker kit and/or build, then you can get your block done and swap the goodies onto that one.
    By the time you have all the machine work done etc - it's going to be fairly expensive, so you might want to give some thought to what Tony and Logan said and just get a pre-built block. It's probably going to be cheaper in the long run and you won't have the downtime for the machining etc.



    Just my two cents - and it's worth at least half of that!





    Quote Originally Posted by awd4life View Post
    can the 46re be built to 450 hp or do i need to swap out to something else
    There really isn't much else to swap to.

    As was said, the 46RE can be built to handle anything your likely to see out of that combo. They use a lot of stuff from the diesel 48RE and some billet parts and all. It can take a lot.

    A straight 727 might be stronger but I really don't recommend that. You'll lose top end mph and reduce your MPGs quite a bit by not having the overdrive and lockup - not to mention having to do the whole left side starter thing and the exhaust complications that come along with that. It's kind of a waste on anything except a dedicated drag build.
    Ya I'm doing the 2WD 727 thing on my lightweight but that's just an around-town blaster that will hopefully see the 1/4 mile at some point. I only did that cuz I have the other ones to drive if I have to go any real distance.


    I should mention there's that company making the GM tranny with the Mopar bell cast onto it. 4L60E or something like that and I can't remember who's doing it...

    Not sure how much more (if any) it can handle but that along with the TCU needed to run it is going to be huge money - and probably a left side starter to boot, lol.




    FYI, on the stroker thing - you'll also need to hunt down a 5.2 flexplate and harmonic balancer since the stroker kits are neutral balance and the 5.9 was external balance. There's also aftermarket neutral balance damper, but afaik no one offers aftermarket flexplates that work with our CKPSs

  24. #24
    Member cowboy63b's Avatar
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    So, this thread has much win....im watching...
    Resident speeding ticket whore

    If I offend anyone tonight, I apologize. That's not my intention. I'm not going to guess what your personal line of decency is. I cross my own from time to time. It's how I know I still have one.

  25. #25
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    I dont know why everyone here is so bent on building a 408. You can make the same power, for cheaper, with a .30 over 360.....
    Always outmanned...Never outgunned

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