Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0

    4.0 looking for next performance upgrades

    Hey guys, Im new to the speed freaks but have spent a lot of time over at JF. I'm looking for some advice on the next steps to take on my 4.0

    My current setup is a 98 4.0 2wd Special Edition GC with the following "upgrades"

    -k&n intake with homemade heat shield. Homemade air ducts that pull air from the outside into the intake filter chamber. thermal wrapped.

    -62 mm TB

    -99+ intake manifold

    -703 injectors

    - AFE Header

    -Custom 2.5 inch downpipe

    -"Custom" Catalytic converter

    -Gibson Muffler, 2.5 inch pipes from header back.

    -4.11 gears w/ 31x10.5" Pro Comp Xtreme A/T on 15" Weld Racing Stone Crushers

    - 3.5 inch lift (RE, IRO)

    -Addco sway bars

    The only basic thing I think im missing is the E Fan conversion. I haven't done this because I have no knowledge of wiring and its my DD.

    _____________________________


    What would be the next step in getting more power out of this thing?

    In the coming year or two I want to either stroke it or turbo it. Or possibly do a mild combination of the two over time.

    Ive been thinking about putting a new cam in. Is it possible to put one in now that will work with a stroker rebuild down the line(and possibly a mild turbo after that)?

    Thanks for your advice,

    Dean

  2. #2
    Member 604rail_king's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    48
    Go low boost turbo setup (5-8psi) on stock motor, and enjoy the simplicity.

    An efan setup won't yield much. And any other true performance mods will cost lots.
    Last edited by 604rail_king; 07-28-2014 at 10:16 AM.
    97 5.2L Limited - sorta stock

  3. #3
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    2,048
    Rep Power
    102
    But an efan is soooo nice. Have you looked at TurboTPI's build? Fairly stock 4.0 with a DIY turbo setup running e85. Definitely quick for what it was. And not terribly expensive, either, from what I remember.

  4. #4
    RallyJeep GO
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,343
    Rep Power
    138
    Ported head, ported 99+ intake manifold and a roller cam setup should wake it up nicely if you want to keep it NA. Otherwise, boost it.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  5. #5
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    2,048
    Rep Power
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    Ported head, ported 99+ intake manifold and a roller cam setup should wake it up nicely if you want to keep it NA. Otherwise, boost it.
    Or do that... AND boost it.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0
    Yea I read turbotpi's thread about a year ago, his videos made me drool. I recently bought a couple books about turbo's to get a feel for what im going to need to get my feet wet.

    my thoughts have always been to stroke the thing when a rebuild becomes necessary. So if i do a turbo now, I would like to build a set up that will eventually work with a mild stroker. Problem is, I dont know how to do the math to see what CR I will have with the hypothetical stroker down the line(California only has 91 octane) let alone how that same setup will respond with 5-6psi of boost.

    My goal is to study up on these topics to one day(soon) be able to wrap my head around these issues and not have to pay a shop to figure it out for me. 4.0s dont seem to be too common on this forum either
    At my current level, pulling the head is a bit intimidating but im sure i could figure it out with the FSM. And i dont know how opening up the intake/exhaust ports would effect a stroker, turbo, or the combination of the two.

    I have 1500 or so set aside to play with right now and want the most bang for my buck.

  7. #7
    Member 604rail_king's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    48
    I've built a 4 > 4.6 stroker, itll cost way more than 1500. I've got some 4.2 rods if you need them

    But a very basic diy turbo setup could be had for not much more (assuming you do all the install)
    97 5.2L Limited - sorta stock

  8. #8
    RallyJeep GO
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,343
    Rep Power
    138
    More airflow from a ported head will always help power. It can cost a little bit of low end torque in some cases, but not always. It'll let the motor breath better at high rpm (not as important with a stock displacement NA setup, as you CANNOT take an even remotely stock 4.0 above 5300 rpm, it takes some serious work to get around the harmonics that occur up there and can break cams and cranks). With a stroker, the ported head will keep it from being a low rpm beast that's done by 3500. With a turbo setup, it'll make more power with the same or less boost, as you're able to push more air through.

    As long as you don't under-size your turbo, there's no reason a setup wouldn't scale to a stroker.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0
    Ok, so short term im going to look into porting the Intake manifold and block. My brother is about to go through a drill tower for the Fire Department and i'll be able to use his truck until christmas. So im hoping to get the turbo set up while i have other transportation. Does valve work/porting the head affect static or dynamic CR's? My biggest concern is detonation on 91 octane. My daily driving is at sea level to maybe 300 feet but i make regular trips during the winter to the local mountains at 6k-8k feet.


    This morning i was looking at possible locations to mount a turbo. The most offroad this thing see's is fire roads when im camping so im not leaving a rear/underbody mount out. Im just not too comfortable with it drawing air from underneath during rain/snow.

    The engine bay is where i would like to mount one. Looks like i will have to play around with the location of the battery, fuses, and coolant reservoir to get enough space. Which makes me worried about heating up parts of the jeep that arent meant to see extreme temps...

    I need to get a list of parts going so i can source the set up for as cheap as possible. Some threads on 4.0 turbo's were using 3" custom exhaust manifolds and pipes. Do you guys think my 14 gauge AFE header 2.5" outlet and pipes will work with a turbo? I'm hoping 14 gauge is thick enough to deal with the heat. its tig welded and AFE claims high quality. Hopefully it wasnt a waste.

    These are the components i think i'll need. please add to the list where you guys see fit.

    As for the turbo itself, I want to go with a known high quality brand. hopefully these books will help me out with the size and trim, or enough to understand the recomendations from the forums.

    Fuel management and tuning seem to be the biggest hurdle with this obdII computer. I dont mind a CEL because i already have to work around CA smog with my current set up.

    An intercooler. either air to air or water. Water would need a pump.

    I just upgraded my injectors to 703's, would this be enough for a mild turbo?

    Wideband o2 sensor.

    various fittings and lines for oil to the turbo.

    I have the Kolak ignition, with the msd coil. the boostwerks build talks about a step colder spark. necessary?

    A BOV or wastegate to control the boost.

    Heatshields and heat wraps to help with the heatsoak and protecting other components in the engine bay from seeing extreme temps.

    Charge pipe

    I have a great exhaust shop that knew my family back when we had shops around LA and they are willing to help me out wherever they can.


    When I port the head and intake manifold, are there any special things i should use? are felpro gaskets okay?



    IF anything that im posted seems misinformed or uneducated, its because i am. Let me know if it seems im diving into to something too soon.

  10. #10
    RallyJeep GO
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,343
    Rep Power
    138
    I'd do the ported intake / head and maybe a cam swap (converting to roller cam is better than staying flat tappet both for durability with a more aggressive cam and for power). Then, after that, if you're still looking for more, you could go to a stroker and/or boost it. Turbo setup can definitely fit in the engine bay on a 4.0, it's been done before.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0
    What roller cam do you recommend? What would be considered an aggressive cam?

  12. #12
    RallyJeep GO
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,343
    Rep Power
    138
    Anything more than stock would be at least somewhat aggressive. 505 Performance makes some roller cam setups for the 4.0, not sure if anyone else does.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,200
    Rep Power
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    Anything more than stock would be at least somewhat aggressive. 505 Performance makes some roller cam setups for the 4.0, not sure if anyone else does.
    Isn't there a Mopar Performance cam available as well?
    -Dave

    1998 GC Laredo SE/1998 Plat 5.9/1998 Plat 5.9/1994 Laredo 5 speed/1998 Slate 5.9- All sold/scrapped

    2004 BMW 330i ZHP- New DD

  14. #14
    RallyJeep GO
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,343
    Rep Power
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by squashman702 View Post
    Isn't there a Mopar Performance cam available as well?
    Yeah, and Comp makes cams for them too. Those are all flat tappet setups (like a stock 4.0 cam) though. Roller cams will have more aggressive lift rates, so they'll make more power for a given size of cam and they're not as picky about break in and oils, etc.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0
    Ive heard some not so great things about comp cams.

    I was looking at 505 yesterday. The roller cam was 1200 compared to 400 for a "stage 2 kit" flat tappet. Is the difference in performance great enough to warrant tripling the price? Is the flat tappet going to be a bottle neck or problem for a boosted 4.0?

  16. #16
    RallyJeep GO
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,343
    Rep Power
    138
    The flat tappet will certainly work fine, it'll just make a bit less power for a given size of cam (size of cam affects how it idles, etc.). Boosted or not won't matter in that sense. My personal issue with flat tappet stuff is that it's very sensitive to being broken in properly, the oil used, etc. to not wipe cam lobes with stiffer valve springs than stock (which are required with a bigger cam).

    Speaking of which, you'll need to change valve springs for a new cam.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0
    Here is an attempt to revive/update my thread. Looking back at my posts, Ive definitely learned a lot since. So I initially decided to go the turbo route and have been piecing together the parts for what seems like a lifetime. All i need is a walbro pump, a T for the oil supply from the pressure sender, and various pipes/couplings, intercooler and a wastegate.

    If anyone can link me to the walbro pump that fits, the threads for the Oil pressure sender for a T, and recommendations on a size for a wastegate id really appreciate it.


    I was enjoying a N/A tune from Ryan before my Torque converter went and sent metal throughout the trans. So I pulled it and am driving it over to Martin Saine for a rebuild in the next 2-3 weeks for a claimed 400-450hp rating. I now have a ceiling and a relative goal for output.

    To prep for the turbo while the jeep is sitting, I am going to pull the head to do the gasket.

    Do you guys have any recommendations on things to replace/upgrade while I'm in there that will benefit the build in either performance or reliability?

    I have also been a click away from ordering a 505 stage 2 cam kit. Mostly due to it replacing a good amount of moving parts that have 180xxx on them. Comes with Cam, Lifters, Timing Set, Pushrods, Cambolt, Springs, Retainers, Keepers.

    Thanks for any and all advice,

    Dean

  18. #18
    Member SilverXJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Christiansburg, VA
    Posts
    538
    Rep Power
    96
    I wouldn't touch anything from 505 with a 10 foot stick. Horrible support, wrong parts shipped, missing parts, damaged parts, etc. You name it. Plus their roller cam is on a cast core, which is not ideal for a performance cam. Last time I saw someone use one of their kits they had ground slots in the lifter for more oiling to the cam with a grinder with an abrasive wheel. And the slots were way too large.

    As for the pump the Walbro GSS342 (255LPH) and the install kit 400-869 is what you want. The pressure sending unit has 1/8" 27tpi pipe threads.

  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0
    Thank you for the part numbers and thread size! Im going to make some orders tonight. Time to do some research on Cam companies and kits. Recommendations welcomed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •