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  1. #1
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    my ZG, pics and projects

    now i'm trying to post a couple of pics:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 11-05-2012 at 02:04 PM.

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    here we are, actually the title was "zg" and not "jg" sorry.

    and here there's a video where i'm drag racing a chevy 5.7 (im racing at 4.23 min) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG9kSc8shSg

    as i was saying in my introduction i'd like to buy the SCT Tuner, and remove the muffler and so some side exit. any advices?
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 11-05-2012 at 08:52 AM.

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    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    here we are, actually the title was "zg" and not "jg" sorry.

    as i was saying in my introduction i'd like to buy the SCT Tuner, and remove the muffler and so some side exit. any advices?
    I think you can edit the title if you go back to it. If not one of us mods can do it.

    ummm, is that a fighter jet sitting with all the civilian planes at 1:04? What's up with that? Oh ya - better pics of it further one but still, what's up with that?

    Always good to see a 'stang get blown off by a station wagon too, LOL

    Seems funny seeing the planes mixed in there. Kind of like bringing a gun to a knife fight, although I'm not sure which is which in this case


    SCT is definitely the right way to go. As far as the exhaust I'll leave the for the others but it's gotta a be a big improvment, but like I said in the other thread make sure it doesn't affect your safety/emissions inspection if you have one.

    The other BIG exhaust tip for those of us not running headers (and they're hard to find nowadays) - is to get a custom down/Y pipe made that eliminates all the power robbing crimps etc.

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    mmm i tryed to edit but i failed, pc is my enemy

    actually that was a meeting of american cars with a meeting of airplanes and a meeting of HD...but i don't know neither bikes neither planes so....actually i can't answer your question

    yep i heard lot of good opinions about the SCT, so as soon as i get the money i take it.

    safety/emission inspections in italy sound strange because here you can't do any modification to your car.
    No mods at all, nothing.
    you should have the approval of the factory that you can do a mod (they should give you a document), after that you have to go to government office that issues driving licences and registers vehicles and do a test with your veichle.
    but there are 2 problems:
    1) the factory (chrysles-italy) do not release any document
    2)this is soooo expesive

    so we usually do little mods and hope nobody see it.
    for the record i got today 4 rubicon express shoks and a kn oil engine filter.

    thanks for the advice about the exhaust

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    so when you were talking about a manual tranny swap, were you talkinng car manual or truck manual?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    mmm i tryed to edit but i failed, pc is my enemy

    actually that was a meeting of american cars with a meeting of airplanes and a meeting of HD...but i don't know neither bikes neither planes so....actually i can't answer your question

    yep i heard lot of good opinions about the SCT, so as soon as i get the money i take it.

    safety/emission inspections in italy sound strange because here you can't do any modification to your car.
    No mods at all, nothing.
    you should have the approval of the factory that you can do a mod (they should give you a document), after that you have to go to government office that issues driving licences and registers vehicles and do a test with your veichle.
    but there are 2 problems:
    1) the factory (chrysles-italy) do not release any document
    2)this is soooo expesive

    so we usually do little mods and hope nobody see it.
    for the record i got today 4 rubicon express shoks and a kn oil engine filter.

    thanks for the advice about the exhaust
    boy that would suck donkey balls. hell i'd just move to Amsterdam .

    so what about " closed course " stuff?

    do y'all have a lot of drag strips over there ?

    so there is strict emission testing too or just inspection, looking to make sure all componets are there?
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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    @speedmontzj: hi i don't understand the first question "so when you were talking about a manual tranny swap, were you talkinng car manual or truck manual?"

    and for "closed course" do you mean sometihng like a road closed for racing? sorry, my english s*ucks

    no unfortunately, we don't have almost any drags trip...the drag raceing events are usually organized in some airoports. But they are very rare, so you dont have to miss them
    Here does not exist a "culture" of the car...i mean every kind of cars. Because we pay a liter of fuel 2 euros, and there are a lot of taxes on the cars...so cars are pretty exepensive toys.
    Moreover we can't tune up our cars...so we usually dirve fiat 500 and vw polo (1.2l 4cyl).
    Also the maintenance is expensive, we usually do not do anything in ours garages.

    No emissions tests are not so stricts, but there are very stricts inspections of the veichle, as you said, to make sure all components are there. and the car is in stock conditions. no mods at all.

    @moderators: can you please change the title in "zg"...thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    @speedmontzj: hi i don't understand the first question "so when you were talking about a manual tranny swap, were you talkinng car manual or truck manual?"

    it's cool don't stress the english stuff. we can figure out what you are trying to say. you posted this in my thread talking about transmission thread

    hi guys, since when i bought my zg i dreamed to swap a 4 speed (or 5, but i'd prefer 4)

    any news about your project?


    i was asking if you were talking about a car manual. meaning something 2wd or something you could shift fast to race with? or truck manual, as something used in a truck for low gearing with 4wd to offroad with.?




    and for "closed course" do you mean sometihng like a road closed for racing? sorry, my english s*ucks

    yeah something like autocross? ( road racing in a parking lot ) or maybe open track days on a road course?



    no unfortunately, we don't have almost any drags trip...the drag raceing events are usually organized in some airoports. But they are very rare, so you dont have to miss them
    Here does not exist a "culture" of the car...i mean every kind of cars. Because we pay a liter of fuel 2 euros, and there are a lot of taxes on the cars...so cars are pretty exepensive toys.
    Moreover we can't tune up our cars...so we usually dirve fiat 500 and vw polo (1.2l 4cyl).
    Also the maintenance is expensive, we usually do not do anything in ours garages.

    so for the few dragraces y'all do have, do the people running them build cars for just those few events, or do they run street cars ?

    No emissions tests are not so stricts, but there are very stricts inspections of the veichle, as you said, to make sure all components are there. and the car is in stock conditions. no mods at all.


    i was asking about emissions testing or just inspection for proper equipment because of the no mods thing. if they don't actually test you could build a stroker and it look just like a completely stock engine. either a 318 or 360 stroked to 390 or 408. if you used stock or the replacement heads you could not tell the difference from looking. now if they hooked the car up you are screwed. if they don't allow that, how do you repair a damaged engine? one that would be in need of an overbore or new crank because of a spun bearing?

    @moderators: can you please change the title in "zg"...thanks


    man don't worry about the" not good at english" thing. i'm from the south, so being a hippie hillbilly most people think i talk like someone from another country anyway. just roll with it.
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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    ahahha ok thanks

    ok naw i got it, yes i mean: i'd like to swap a truck manual...i'd like to keep 4wd but i'd also like to launch the car on a drag race.
    Do you think it's possible?

    yes autocross is more "famous" in italy than drag racing, but i never autocrossed the zg.

    more are street cars, as you can see in the video. There are very few "offical day" drag race events, with specific cars.
    here you can see some: http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.SzBbhzgqSBk
    but i think in all italy there are maybe 5-6 dates per one year like that. So drag race is vary rare.

    yeah probably nobody can see the difference if someone open the hood. But if you do an accident the insurance company (before pay the damage) calls some technicians to see if the car was stock, so if they see something "strange", the company does not pay, so you are fu*ked.

    but now i have to ask some questions : can i do a stroker from a 318? will it be a 390 right? will it look like a stock 318?
    (actully this is just for talking, because now i don't have the mony for a stroker )

    and anotherone: now my np249 is strting to give problems (the vc), car is "jumping" during strict turns. What should i do? swap an np231? will be enough tough the np 231 for car launches?
    i don't drag race evry day, but when there is a event i like to launch a coiple of times.
    thanks guys
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 11-10-2012 at 08:06 AM.

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    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedmontzj View Post
    man don't worry about the" not good at english" thing. i'm from the south, so being a hippie hillbilly most people think i talk like someone from another country anyway. just roll with it.
    wait - Alabama is part of the US now? When did that happen? And now wonder you type with a funny accent

    LOL, see - I'm making fun of us US people's lack of geographic skills, as seen by the rest of the world.


    Mark,

    for starters....



    Yes, it can be done In fact there's about six or seven V8 manual trans ZJs running around now.

    Not sure about the hard 'launching' though. The NV series trans (more on that below) tend to be hit or miss as far as what an individual trans will stand up to. Some people drag them hard in the Dodges with no problems, on other Dodges they'll fail just under normal street use.

    There's also evidently a Japanese trans that fits these, the one from the Supra maybe? but I'm not that familiar with the specs or model number/name etc so I'll stick with what I know. Hopefully someone else will name that correct trans and have some idea on the specs.

    So anyway, it's a bunch of work but there's no real major surgery involved - and these allow you to keep it AWD too.

    The big problem I'll adress right off is that every option that I can think of involves going to a left side starter, which interferes with our exhaust downpipe routing and means you can't use any headers made for a ZJ, and in fact I don't even think you can use the stock exhaust manifolds.
    That leaves block hugger headers, or for a possibly more stock appearance there may be some center outlet exhaust manifolds from earlier mopars that would work - maybe, LOL

    The NV3500 from Dodge trucks is a straight fit, but I don't like where the shifter comes up on those. It's a bit too forward for me and requires notching the from of the shifter console. Now - someone mentioned that there's a few different shifter positions used on the 3500s depending on which vehicle they're from, so you might be able to find something closer than what I'm thinking of.
    (that 3500 is actually on piece at the front with a cast in Magnum-ready bellhousing, so no bell or adapter needed)

    My preference: Bell housing from an (early 90s?) Dodge V6 truck with AX15 trans, but combined with the NV3550 from a Wrangler, about year 2000 or 2001 and up I believe... (The V6 is a part of the Magnum family, so same bolt pattern as our 5.2s and 5.9s)

    The original AX15 from the 4.0 Jeeps is considered too weak, but if you have the money for it the New "Terminator Spec" AX15 from rsgear and transfercaseunlimited are strongest of all (that Supra trans aside, possibly)

    There is also the NV4500 which is the strongest of all, but it's a giant cast iron monster which will probably require you altering your trans tunnel to fit it, and the first gear is so low that 1st would be almost useless on the street. I wouldn't recommend them ever, unless you were doing a hard core offroad build.

    As far as the transfer case, there's several options - but I think generally for street use the 242 is preferable to the 231. 242 has Part Time and Full Time 4WD in addition to 2WD, 231 only has one of those.

    Other options are rebuilding your 249, but the VC (viscous couplers) are expensive. Then again, if you have the money to spend transfercaseunlimted (transfercaselimited maybe?) makes a real nice 247/249 hybrid that replaces the VC with clutch packs from the 247.

    Now the one thing this all doesn't take into account is passing your inspections and keeping it legal. If they look into it they'll probably know V8 ZJs never came with a manual trans, and or if anything happens to it and insurance gets involved they'd probably figure it out too.

    As far as the emissions part of it, if you leave the stock computer in it you'll have CELs (MIL, the check engine light) which would maybe kill your emissions inspection. Mine is running a Dodge Ram 5.2 5spd PCM - there are no CELs and it will eventually be tuned with the SCT tuner which will overwrite the 5.2 specs to 5.9 specs anyway.
    FYI - it seems some Dodge PCMs work for this swap and some don't, although no one's seemed to find the PCM part numbers that work vs the ones that don't.

  11. #11
    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    thanks for the anwers.

    i was reading that the ax15, as you say, is too damn weak. and i think also the nv3550 is too weak http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/nv3550.htm . Here it says that the strenght is like the ax 15....
    i have never heard about that "terminator spec", i'm reading now that is rated at 385 ft lbs of torque...so it's pretty good. here the link : http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f259/...inator-771951/
    the 5.2 is putting out about 300 ft lbs ....i'm warried about the 5.2 with some mods. i think is going to put out more than 385....i don't know.

    i'd like to put an heavy duty trans...if i spend 3 grand on a manual tranny i want to launch the car, i dont want to think: "naw it's gonna brake" every time i shift gear.
    i prefer to spend little more but have tough tranny.
    do you understand what i mean?
    i have no info about the supra's tranny.
    and i'm agree with the nv4500 that is from a diesel so the first gear is too short, and that tranny is too big.

    ii was thinking about an 80's 4 speed tranny like here in the viedeo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkBe7wBy_fY
    im talking about the burban's tranny.
    what do you think?


    for the t case, i'd prefer the 242 but here in italy i can only find the 231.
    i need a full list od the veichles equipped with the 242, so i can search in every junkyard here.
    i'll take a look on the web and see if i can find the list.
    but i have a question: all the 242 are the same? for example a 242 from an xj is the same as a 242 from a zj?
    no unfortunately i don't have much money to spend on my jeep...so i have to avoid the idea of a 249 rebuilt or the idea of the 247 mod.

    emissions are the more little problem, don't warry about it.

    thanks again for the advices.
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 11-11-2012 at 11:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    ahahha ok thanks

    ok naw i got it, yes i mean: i'd like to swap a truck manual...i'd like to keep 4wd but i'd also like to launch the car on a drag race.
    Do you think it's possible?

    yes it's possible, but i'll answer this with anoother question below


    So drag race is vary rare.


    gotcha. was just curious. so the guys that race at these races, are they running completely stock cars or have they modified them? how do they get away with the modifications?

    yeah probably nobody can see the difference if someone open the hood. But if you do an accident the insurance company (before pay the damage) calls some technicians to see if the car was stock, so if they see something "strange", the company does not pay, so you are fu*ked.

    i know you may not know the answer to this but, how deep do the techs dig? does it depend on the wreck or do they do the same to all of them? in other words. what kind of wreck would cause them to want to look at you engine? i know most of the newer cars give the last 30 seconds or more of driving history thru the pcm but zj's cant do that. but if they do check the pcm i'm sure they can see if it is stock or if it has had a tune. if you built a stroker you would have to have a tune installed/flashed into your pcm to make it run right


    but now i have to ask some questions : can i do a stroker from a 318? will it be a 390 right? will it look like a stock 318?
    (actully this is just for talking, because now i don't have the mony for a stroker )

    yes if you used stock heads, or i'm pretty sure the rhs heads, from the outside you could not tell the difference in a 318ci (bore=3.910 X stroke=3.310) and a 415ci (bore=3.940 X stroke=4.250) from the outside. you would not get as much of a power gain because you would have to use the stock intake so it will look stock, but the torque gain would be huge. a stroker would allow you to runn a bigger cam and it still sound"stock because more cubic inches "absorb" a bigger cam


    and anotherone: now my np249 is strting to give problems (the vc), car is "jumping" during strict turns. What should i do? swap an np231? will be enough tough the np 231 for car launches?

    yes you can install a 231 but most people install a 242. it gives you a 2wd option but also has a fulltime 4wd . i like a 231 better myself because of all the upgrades and options for a 231. you have low gears, stronger case, short output, etc for the 231. much better offroad case i think. only thing with the t-case swap is , as far as i know, all v8 zj's had a 249 t-case so that comes back to how good the techs dig to loke for mods.


    i don't drag race evry day, but when there is a event i like to launch a coiple of times.
    thanks guys



    Quote Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
    wait - Alabama is part of the US now? When did that happen? And now wonder you type with a funny accent


    yes for now. when the pussy's in congress start making us have to have passports and require body cavity searches to cross state lines then we will no longer be the unitedstates. i used to try and cover it up, but hell it's what i am so why hide it.

    LOL, see - I'm making fun of us US people's lack of geographic skills, as seen by the rest of the world.

    there is not many people in the rest of the world that like the us or the people that live in it, but in all honesty, can you really blame them?


    Mark,

    for starters....



    Yes, it can be done In fact there's about six or seven V8 manual trans ZJs running around now.

    Not sure about the hard 'launching' though. The NV series trans (more on that below) tend to be hit or miss as far as what an individual trans will stand up to. Some people drag them hard in the Dodges with no problems, on other Dodges they'll fail just under normal street use.

    There's also evidently a Japanese trans that fits these, the one from the Supra maybe? but I'm not that familiar with the specs or model number/name etc so I'll stick with what I know. Hopefully someone else will name that correct trans and have some idea on the specs.

    So anyway, it's a bunch of work but there's no real major surgery involved - and these allow you to keep it AWD too.

    The big problem I'll adress right off is that every option that I can think of involves going to a left side starter, which interferes with our exhaust downpipe routing and means you can't use any headers made for a ZJ, and in fact I don't even think you can use the stock exhaust manifolds.
    That leaves block hugger headers, or for a possibly more stock appearance there may be some center outlet exhaust manifolds from earlier mopars that would work - maybe, LOL

    The NV3500 from Dodge trucks is a straight fit, but I don't like where the shifter comes up on those. It's a bit too forward for me and requires notching the from of the shifter console. Now - someone mentioned that there's a few different shifter positions used on the 3500s depending on which vehicle they're from, so you might be able to find something closer than what I'm thinking of.
    (that 3500 is actually on piece at the front with a cast in Magnum-ready bellhousing, so no bell or adapter needed)

    My preference: Bell housing from an (early 90s?) Dodge V6 truck with AX15 trans, but combined with the NV3550 from a Wrangler, about year 2000 or 2001 and up I believe... (The V6 is a part of the Magnum family, so same bolt pattern as our 5.2s and 5.9s)

    The original AX15 from the 4.0 Jeeps is considered too weak, but if you have the money for it the New "Terminator Spec" AX15 from rsgear and transfercaseunlimited are strongest of all (that Supra trans aside, possibly)

    There is also the NV4500 which is the strongest of all, but it's a giant cast iron monster which will probably require you altering your trans tunnel to fit it, and the first gear is so low that 1st would be almost useless on the street. I wouldn't recommend them ever, unless you were doing a hard core offroad build.

    As far as the transfer case, there's several options - but I think generally for street use the 242 is preferable to the 231. 242 has Part Time and Full Time 4WD in addition to 2WD, 231 only has one of those.

    Other options are rebuilding your 249, but the VC (viscous couplers) are expensive. Then again, if you have the money to spend transfercaseunlimted (transfercaselimited maybe?) makes a real nice 247/249 hybrid that replaces the VC with clutch packs from the 247.

    Now the one thing this all doesn't take into account is passing your inspections and keeping it legal. If they look into it they'll probably know V8 ZJs never came with a manual trans, and or if anything happens to it and insurance gets involved they'd probably figure it out too.

    As far as the emissions part of it, if you leave the stock computer in it you'll have CELs (MIL, the check engine light) which would maybe kill your emissions inspection. Mine is running a Dodge Ram 5.2 5spd PCM - there are no CELs and it will eventually be tuned with the SCT tuner which will overwrite the 5.2 specs to 5.9 specs anyway.
    FYI - it seems some Dodge PCMs work for this swap and some don't, although no one's seemed to find the PCM part numbers that work vs the ones that don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    thanks for the anwers.

    i was reading that the ax15, as you say, is too damn weak. and i think also the nv3550 is too weak http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/nv3550.htm . Here it says that the strenght is like the ax 15....
    i have never heard about that "terminator spec", i'm reading now that is rated at 385 ft lbs of torque...so it's pretty good. here the link : http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f259/...inator-771951/
    the 5.2 is putting out about 300 ft lbs ....i'm warried about the 5.2 with some mods. i think is going to put out more than 385....i don't know.

    i'd like to put an heavy duty trans...if i spend 3 grand on a manual tranny i want to launch the car, i dont want to think: "naw it's gonna brake" every time i shift gear.
    i prefer to spend little more but have tough tranny.
    do you understand what i mean?
    i have no info about the supra's tranny.
    and i'm agree with the nv4500 that is from a diesel so the first gear is too short, and that tranny is too big.

    ii was thinking about an 80's 4 speed tranny like here in the viedeo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkBe7wBy_fY
    im talking about the burban's tranny.
    what do you think?


    for the t case, i'd prefer the 242 but here in italy i can only find the 231.
    i need a full list od the veichles equipped with the 242, so i can search in every junkyard here.
    i'll take a look on the web and see if i can find the list.
    but i have a question: all the 242 are the same? for example a 242 from an xj is the same as a 242 from a zj?
    no unfortunately i don't have much money to spend on my jeep...so i have to avoid the idea of a 249 rebuilt or the idea of the 247 mod.

    also on the t-case swap. i have swapped an old school gear drive dana 300 in one of my zj's. the first thing you will need to know kis what spline count of your output shaft on your trans. its been a few years since i did my swap but there is a short and long 23 spl output and a 21 spline output. you should be able to get either of thhe 23 splines to work. so when looking for a t-case, make sure it has a 23 spline input shaft. worse case is you would have to put a clocking ring on to space the t-case away from the trans. i had to do some fabbing to my d300 because i had the long 23spl output

    emissions are the more little problem, don't warry about it.

    thanks again for the advices.

    ok on the transmissions. as z88z said ( i think) only some early zj's came with manual trans's and all of those weere 6 cyl. so that comes back to the techs and how much looking they actually do. the only ones you could put in and have it look stock would be an ax15 or a nv3500. you could install anything but those are the only 2 that would fit with no or very little mods to look as stock as possible. the stock nv3500 is pretty strong stock i think. if i was installing a 5speed in one of mine that i wanted looking factory that is what it would be.

    if you are wanting an old 4speed the most popular was the different models of the sm465. do not quote me but i'm pretty sure most of the dodge 4speeds were divorce mount. then you would also need to think about what kind of tcase you wanted to run with the old trans. to run the 231 you would need an adaptor unless you went with one of the old jeep 4speeds. the 176 has a shity gear ratio split from 2nd to 3rd thou and they were not that strong. i broke 2 before i swapped to a 465 with a 304 that was .030 over with forged pisons and reworked stock crank and rods. heads had some porting and a reworked quadrajet carb with a 100 shot rigged into the the spreadbore squarebore adapter. it was a streched cj5 that i used to play with.

    i will say no matter what kind of "truck" style trans you pick, none will shift very good or fast for racing. the sm465 will hang up in 3rd everytime you try to go 2nd to 3rd above 5000 rpm. ive tried shifting one from 5000-8000 plus and it will hang going to 3rd everytime and you will have to let it rev down to 3 or 4000 rpm to get it to go in gear. you will have to double clutch 3rd until you get the shifter wore completely out so it will shift at high rpm. then if it was like the couple i went thru in my old truck it will have so much slop the shifter will hit the dash. you can also shift it clutchless but you have too shift it slow to do it. if you are good at double clutching it does alright in all gears. those kinds of trans were just not made to shift like that.

    another thing is, if you start dumping the clutch on pavement you will start breaking stuff no matter thhe trans that is under it. that is unless you put some kind of dual plate or adjustable clutch in it. which anyone wanting to put that in a zj would be a complete idiot. ( haha that is what i am wanting to do ) you will start killing ujoints or ring and pinion gears in the 44a dumping the clutch. you have to build some sliip in somewhere in the drivetrain.
    Last edited by speedmontzj; 11-12-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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    mmm it's hard to say...someone is modifying their cars and others don't. They get away because we are in italy and noone can distinguish a dodge charger with the 318 or a dodge charger with a 426 hemi.
    actually this is a difficult answer. Thankfully i never had an accident.
    i was talking with the "insurance guy" about this topic. (he is a friend of my father) He told me that if you do a "small" accident (something like 10.000 euros of damages) nobady will dig your car. If you do a serious accident (more damgas, with injuried people) they'll dig the car and they'll dont pay anything.
    If you do some serious modifications, like a manual tranny or a stroker you can take the car to germany, get your documents and traslate the documents in italy, but this is very expesive (like 3.000 or 4.000 euros). After this you can ride your car without problems, but you'll pay more taxes because your car has mor hp than stock.


    thanks for the stroker explanations, but as i was saying in this moment the 318 is running good and i don't have the money for the stroker


    in this moment i'm looking for a street-strip t-case...for offroad i have some other projects.
    i think i have 23 splines, to be honest i'm pretty sure.
    do you think will the 242 the better choice for my kind of use?



    actually i really like us, i've been to us last summer for 20 days...it was amazing!


    talking about trannys: mmm not sure about the strongness of the nv3500, i think it's rated 300 lbs ft of torque...so it is at the "limit" because i think the 318 (stock) is putting out 300 lbs ft.
    no and the t-176 is ratet something like 275 or 285...less than the nv3500 or the ax15.
    i was reading that the sm465 is pretty "indestructible"...but as you say it is a mess to fit it in the zj. And i red,as you said, that is not a racing tranny.
    i think the only way is a terminator ax 15...it's rated a 385 lbs ft...so a 318 wiht minor mods will be good (i think).
    and the ax 15 is a "simple" fit to my 318.
    and for the cluch i red that "centerforce" clutches are good. by the way, that is what id' like to do
    and last, for the axele, what do think aobut a ford 8.8?
    so in the end: 242+terminator ax-15+cenetrforce clutch+ford8.8+318 with minor mods??

    thanks for all advices and infos
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 11-12-2012 at 03:10 PM.

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    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedmontzj View Post
    ok on the transmissions. as z88z said ( i think) only some early zj's came with manual trans's and all of those weere 6 cyl. so that comes back to the techs and how much looking they actually do. the only ones you could put in and have it look stock would be an ax15 or a nv3500. you could install anything but those are the only 2 that would fit with no or very little mods to look as stock as possible. the stock nv3500 is pretty strong stock i think. if i was installing a 5speed in one of mine that i wanted looking factory that is what it would be.....
    From what I've seen the 3500 is really not a direct fit. The shifter comes up far enough forward that the front of the console has to be cut out - but I read somewhere that there were different shifter postions used so it might be closer if you got if from one Dodge truck vs another.

    I prefer the NV3550 from the Wranglers. Same internals/specs as the 3500 but it's uses the bell from the V6 Magnum trucks. I'm kinda old fashioned like that where I want the bell and the trans to be separate, not a one piece like the 3500s.

    Like I said somewhere else - to quote the info I saw on a Dodge forum: "Some 3500s survive hard dragstrip usage including repeated high rpm clutch dumps and hard shifting, other 3500s just fall apart driving down the street - it all seems to be about what kind of a day the assemblers at the NV factory were having when a given trans was built" - so a 3500 might stand up to a lot, but you'll never know if you found a good one til you get it in the vehicle and start using it

    So, for the semi-stock style trans the Terminator AX15 is probably the best bet.

    And there's that Supra trans that is supposed to fit and (I think?) was said to be stronger than these and also available with output housings for AWD models. I haven't read up on them and was hoping whoever mentioned that before would weigh in on this thread too.

    I think the ideal thing a lot of us are looking for would be a true 'street/musclecar' type manual transmission that could handle some serious torque but still be AWD - and that AWD thing is where we fall short.
    However - there is a guy in my state that is a vendor and factory accredited tech for the TKO stuff or whatever the heck they call themselves now, LOL. I talked to him once on the phone briefly and he said he did do one T type trans and adapted it to AWD for a Ford Explorer, but he had to get off the phone and I never got back to him to get details.




    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    mmm it's hard to say....

    If you do a serious accident (more damgas, with injuried people) they'll dig the car and they'll dont pay anything.

    If you do some serious modifications, like a manual tranny or a stroker you can take the car to germany, get your documents and traslate the documents in italy, but this is very expesive (like 3.000 or 4.000 euros). After this you can ride your car without problems, but you'll pay more taxes because your car has mor hp than stock.

    do you think will the 242 the better choice for my kind of use?

    actually i really like us, i've been to us last summer for 20 days...it was amazing!

    i was reading that the sm465 is pretty "indestructible"...but as you say it is a mess to fit it in the zj. And i red,as you said, that is not a racing tranny.

    and last, for the axele, what do think aobut a ford 8.8?...
    When you say injuries - does that mean they might not even cover injury liability - or they just wouldn't cover your Jeep? If I thought I might be liable for injuries - the hell with it, I'd just buy a Fiat and call it a day! LOL

    the 465 is an old school truck trans I think? I know EMTimZJ on Jeepforum installed one on his 5.2 ZJ but that's a real offroad build with a twin stick Tcase and alll that other offroad stuff I don't understand, so no idea how easily that would adapt to our style of Tcase. LOL

    As far as the divorced thing, I think they ran divorced Tcases through about the mid or late 60s or very early 70s, but when they went to bolt on Tcases after that they were huge giant hideous cast iron monster things with a completely different bolt pattern/size than ours. I remember seeing a pic of one on an old 727 and thinking DO NOT WANT!!! LOLz

    231 vs 242 - I think you'd want the 242 as it has both Part Time and Full Time, and the 231 only has the one. Now those definitions always threw me cuz it turned out they meant exactly the opposite of what I thought - so someone please correct this if I have this backwards! LOLz
    Full Time means it only goes into AWD part time, like when it senses slipping from the rear - so it only works part time so you can leave it in that gear full time. (cuz when it's in FT it's basically like having a 249 I guess, right?)
    Part Time means it's in 4WD full time - hence gets bad MPGs and is stiffer to drive - so it's only suitable for part time use.

    As far as the axle, yes the Ford 8.8 rear is a very common swap


    Another thought - Maybe you can confrim this Mark...
    I think the ZG retained the 5spds on the CRD versions though 98, didn't they? So while those parts might not do you any good (oh - except for the pedals!) having a manual trans 98 ZG over there might not draw as much attention as it would over here.
    Whether they would look at it enough to realize it's a gas V8 and not a CRD 4 is a different thing.


    What part of the US were you in Mark?





    (edit - finally fixed the title for ya! )
    Last edited by Z88Z; 11-13-2012 at 01:40 PM.

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    yep i think you said correct the nv 3500 is form dodge, so it is NOT a simple fit...and the 3550 can fit.
    i don't like this thing that some does survive to a grag strip, and others do not survive street. It's too dangerous...risk of spending lot of money in a tranny that goes boom the first time you try a take off.
    in my opinion the terminator could be the right chioice. 385 lbs ft are not bad at all.
    and maybe i can find an ax 15 here, and order the terminator kit...
    you can't run a stroker, but you can have fun.
    I don't have any info about the supra tranny...if someone could help it would be great.
    I was reading on the web that TKO trannys can hold up 600 lbs ft...that is amazing, but i have no chance of getting one of these here.


    talking about t cases...yep i think that the 242 would be the best choice because of the fulltime thing...or is it too weak?


    so it's ok for the ford 8.8...when i break the d44a i'll put the ford.

    so could it be a good set up: 318 mionr mods (like a cam, headers and m1 intake, sct tuned), 242, terminator ax 15, ford 8.8?
    not extreme but funny, i suppose. Agree?


    the zg diesel were VM 4cyl 2.5, not CRD 6 cyl...some wg were equipped with the CRD, but i think 5cyl not 6cyl. Maybe some wg equipped with VM were 3.1 v6 (or 6 in line, i dont know).
    by the way, yes thery were manual trannyes, with ax 15 i think.


    with "injuries" i mean: if there are some people hurt in the accident (so it costs lot of money), the insurance does not pay the damage you do to others. They never pay your car if it is your fault.
    so if you hit someone and you hurt him, they dont pay...so you have to pay by your wallet the damage to him. And you pay your car.
    if i do all this mods i have to have all documents i need.


    i've landed in LA, and i've there a couple of days (awesome!). When i finish school and start work i'll buy a house in North Hollywood
    After LA, i've been to Scottsdale...too damn hot
    After SD i've been to Sedona (i loved that small city, pretty epic)...and Kayenta for Monument Vally (actually i also loved the Monument Valley)...and Williams for the Grand Canyon.
    After Arizona i moved to Nevada, Las Vegas.
    Back to Calfornia, to Yosemiti park...i stayed in Oakhurst.
    After Oakhurst i did San Francisco, San Louis Obispo and back to LA...and back to Italy.
    For about 20 days in total....Amazing!
    I bought lot of things, like an hawain shirt, a t-shirt for my girlfriend, a white plush with the USA flag printed (love that pluh) and some other stuff.
    I miss big burgers ...i remeber car's junior or something, those burgers were massive!


    Thanks for the title
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 11-13-2012 at 02:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
    I prefer the NV3550 from the Wranglers. Same internals/specs as the 3500 but it's uses the bell from the V6 Magnum trucks. I'm kinda old fashioned like that where I want the bell and the trans to be separate, not a one piece like the 3500s.

    i was actually thinking about the wrangler trans. the 3500 came in 1/2 ton dodges i think, and some others.

    So, for the semi-stock style trans the Terminator AX15 is probably the best bet.

    And there's that Supra trans that is supposed to fit and (I think?) was said to be stronger than these and also available with output housings for AWD models. I haven't read up on them and was hoping whoever mentioned that before would weigh in on this thread too.

    that terma ax15 would be the best and easiest. would be a bolt in deal. i have never heard anythhing on the supra trans. i have only messed with chevy man trans cept for the few jeep onnes.

    I think the ideal thing a lot of us are looking for would be a true 'street/musclecar' type manual transmission that could handle some serious torque but still be AWD - and that AWD thing is where we fall short.
    However - there is a guy in my state that is a vendor and factory accredited tech for the TKO stuff or whatever the heck they call themselves now, LOL. I talked to him once on the phone briefly and he said he did do one T type trans and adapted it to AWD for a Ford Explorer, but he had to get off the phone and I never got back to him to get details.

    would be super easy. run a standard 2wd tko and a divorced atlas or stak case. would be long as hell though. you got the room in a grand thou. i bought a chassis one time to do a tube buggy. i live for driving manual trans,issions. if up to me autos would be made illegal to even own. so the plan was to run a t56 with a stak case. imagine climbing a bigass wall with a set of cut 40" boggers hammered down shifting gears. to make it simple for nz to understand i wanted a street car trans with a twin stick tcase so i could bang gears while offroad.







    the 465 is an old school truck trans I think? I know EMTimZJ on Jeepforum installed one on his 5.2 ZJ but that's a real offroad build with a twin stick Tcase and alll that other offroad stuff I don't understand, so no idea how easily that would adapt to our style of Tcase. LOL

    As far as the divorced thing, I think they ran divorced Tcases through about the mid or late 60s or very early 70s, but when they went to bolt on Tcases after that they were huge giant hideous cast iron monster things with a completely different bolt pattern/size than ours. I remember seeing a pic of one on an old 727 and thinking DO NOT WANT!!! LOLz

    the earlier 465's in chevy and dodge came with np205 t cases the trans is real short compared to auto's but heavy and the tcase is full gear drive and for the most part unbreakable but as z said kinda big and heavy. i tried to benchpress one in a truck by myself one time and the thing almost killed me when i fell while i was trying to get the bolts started. the have a shity low range of 1.95 to 1. the 231's for instance are 2. 62 to 1 i believe or real close to that. so the 205 is not near as low but you can buy a lowgear kit now for a 3 to 1 lowrange. most people go with a doubler thou when looking for lower gearing where you use the range box of a 203 and with a adapter bolt it to a 205 tycase. the 203 was the early fullsize fulltime tcases with a chain drive but the range box was a semi seperate box and was geardrivin. the only way, usually, you will break a 205 is serious big block power and torque and 44" + tire size with 2 1/2 ton axles, because 1 ton axles will break before the tcase. usually when you break one its the front output first anyway. there is also some other doubler combos, d300 and even the 231.


    i have an oddball cheavy parts truck at my house. i bought it for the d60 front axle. its a factory '78 full-time 4wd 1 ton with a 4speed with a smallblock. means its got a sm465 and a 203 tcase. would be perfect setup for a doubler. i have never actually seen one of these till i bought this one. i didn't even think they started making full time 1 tons till the 80's. full time 1/2 toms started in '78.



    231 vs 242 - I think you'd want the 242 as it has both Part Time and Full Time, and the 231 only has the one. Now those definitions always threw me cuz it turned out they meant exactly the opposite of what I thought - so someone please correct this if I have this backwards! LOLz
    Full Time means it only goes into AWD part time, like when it senses slipping from the rear - so it only works part time so you can leave it in that gear full time. (cuz when it's in FT it's basically like having a 249 I guess, right?)
    Part Time means it's in 4WD full time - hence gets bad MPGs and is stiffer to drive - so it's only suitable for part time use.


    it goes like this i think
    a 249. you have full-time===N===4 LO means it is in "4wd" all the time. front and rear are geting power ( different ratios in early vs late models ) pretty much all the time. this is even more true when the vc is worn out.
    a 242. you have full-time===2hi===N===4LO means you can drive it as a 249 case, but you can also swap it into 2wd hi to unlock the front axle for better gas milage.
    a 231. you have 4HI===2HI===N===4LO 4Hi is not the same as full time as it is not designed to drive around in 4HI all the time like the fulltime gear is. its basically a higher geared 4 lo. also has "2hi" to unlock the front axle

    fulltime means like a 249 or the 242 fulltime gear range. works good for up north with snow, ice and places where you are often shifting in and out of 4wd. also helps in the handling department because it tends to pull itself around corners without oversteering or breaking the rear end loose when too much power is applied. parttime means you can shift it out of 4wd to 2wd where only the rear gets power. the front driveshaft still turns because you don't have locking hubs to unlock the front axle. so the front tires are still locked to the ring and pinion and driveshaft. it just spins in the tcase not hooked to anything. people got to fawking lazy to get out and lock or unlock hubs so that is why we have unit bearinngs. same reason we have 4wd buttons. because people got to fawking lazy to reach down and pull a lever.


    As far as the axle, yes the Ford 8.8 rear is a very common swap

    yes great swap. right at the same width as stock and some come with disk brakes. also a good bit stronger than the 44a.


    Another thought - Maybe you can confrim this Mark...
    I think the ZG retained the 5spds on the CRD versions though 98, didn't they? So while those parts might not do you any good (oh - except for the pedals!) having a manual trans 98 ZG over there might not draw as much attention as it would over here.
    Whether they would look at it enough to realize it's a gas V8 and not a CRD 4 is a different thing.



    don't have a clue about this. i can make something up if you want thou.



    (edit - finally fixed the title for ya! )

    .........
    Last edited by speedmontzj; 11-14-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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    Understood thanks, so now it's all terminator vs tko.

    but i was looking on the web that atlas+tko is way too expensive for my wallet
    Last edited by Mark 318 ita; 11-17-2012 at 02:09 AM.

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    Another trans that nobody has used, but interests me, and bolts right up to the engine, is the Getrag 238 6 speed from a mid 2000s 4.7 Dodge Ram 1500. Personally, I like it because it's geared a lot like an AX-15, same OD ratio, etc, but has a bit wider spread and a little lower 1st and 2nd than an AX-15 or NV3550. It would be good with 3.08s in the axles (like the factory 5 speeds), as it has plenty of gear on the low end to get moving, and that would put you at about 100 - 120 rpm lower than stock on the highway doing 60 (which should help mileage a little).
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    Mmm not sure about the stoutness of the 238....i red that is rated about 220 lbs ft.
    maybe the web failed, but if it is correct it's pretty weak.

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    Mmm not sure about the stoutness of the 238....i red that is rated about 220 lbs ft.
    maybe the web failed, but if it is correct it's pretty weak.

    edit: sorry...i posted twice.

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    From what I've seen, the 238 is rated for 385 ft. lbs. (and Mopar trusted it behind the 4.7), which is more than a Termi AX-15 or NV3550 is rated for (300 ft. lbs. IIRC).
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  22. #22
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    Another trans that nobody has used, but interests me, and bolts right up to the engine, is the Getrag 238 6 speed from a mid 2000s 4.7 Dodge Ram 1500. ...
    oh ya, forgot about that one.

    Any idea about the general size of that trans and how well it might fit the ZJs?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
    oh ya, forgot about that one.

    Any idea about the general size of that trans and how well it might fit the ZJs?
    I did a bit of research, and it looks like the shifter sits 3" forward of the NV3500 shifter (not sure about the 3550). See here: http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/...d.php?t=165219
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

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    Member Mark 318 ita's Avatar
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    Sorry, my mistake i checked on dodge forum and it is 383 lbs ft of torque.

    z88z: if you read a couple of posts UP i wrote the tour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 318 ita View Post
    Understood thanks, so now it's all terminator vs tko.

    but i was looking on the web that atlas+tko is way too expensive for my wallet
    yes it would be expensive. a used t56 is around 1600 or so. i would not buy a new tko. they don't shift for shit under power and will start grinding quick if you try to force it. i would buy on from a couple of the dealers that faceplate them to make them shift under heavy throttle but then most regular people b1tch about the street driving then. so you figure 2 stacks for the trans and another 2 stacks for the 2 speed tcase. then you would need a new frt and rear dshafts plus the short center one. also need new mounts for tcase and trans. if you cant fab those a shop would prolly charge you close to 1k to set up your new mounts. i would figure atleast 6k for that setup. would be a bitch in a zj because unless you ran cable shifters for the tcase, they would be behind the driver seat. with a buggy you have a lot more freedom of mounting so i wasn't to worried about that.

    that is the reason a t56 is not sitting in my shop waiting to get installed in the fast jeep. honestly thou the main reason is, i have been holding out thinking i will run across a ls2 with t56 deal. most used t56's go for 1400-1800 dollars. refurb t56's go for ~ 2500. i've seen ls2 with t56 attached with complete wiring harness and pcm out of gto's for as little as 3500-3800. so for less than 1500 more dollars i can get a ls2 with pcm and clutch and everything . i even seen an ls2 t56 combo with a maggie blower go for 5500 i think it was. hell the blower alone costs that new. that is cheap as hell for 600hp motor 6spd trans pcm and eveything. more than likly the pcm already has a tune for tnhe blower.
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