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  1. #1
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Bad seller... Robert Orlowski...

    So I bought my handheld SCT tuner from Bob, under the impression it was good to go...

    Tuner is unlocked and ready to go. I bought it new and used it on my 5.9 as well as a friends 5.9. Two vehicles total.
    Thanks for the quick deal, and also for the free advertisement on the BBK

    paypal email is:

    XXXXX@gmail.com

    I will ship tomorrow if you can send it over anytime before noon tomorrow

    Thanks

    Bob
    It shipped quick, he provided tracking, everything was golden. I finally got around to actually unwrapping the stupid thing about 10 days ago and... It's still VIN locked to the last vehicle. Not a big deal, if he was willing to unlock it--SCT charges more than I paid for the handheld to unlock it... 10 emails and two phone messages later, he has yet to respond. I put "Read" notifications on my emails, so I know he's getting them and at least opening them.

    So now I'm out $150 and all I have to show for it is this nifty little paper weight. I wasn't going to go public with this, in hopes that he'd amend the situation, but I haven't gotten a word out of him since I sent the money.

    That's what I get for doing business with new forum members that post adds and disappear. Especially ones with SNs like sneakycastro. Probably won't be buying from him again if he ever comes back. Anybody in the Chicago area want to go knock on his door for me real quick?

    Last edited by McCloudsZJ; 06-04-2014 at 08:06 AM.

  2. #2
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    This shit really pisses me off! What forum did you find him on?

  3. #3
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MexiJeeper View Post
    This shit really pisses me off! What forum did you find him on?
    This one...

    http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread...-Throttle-Body

    He'd been a member for two years and owns Redsand's old niner, so I assumed he was kosher...

  4. #4
    Member 604rail_king's Avatar
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    If you paid using PayPal, contact them to say the seller is fraudulent

  5. #5
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    Very sad but I agree with contacting PayPal.

  6. #6
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 604rail_king View Post
    If you paid using PayPal, contact them to say the seller is fraudulent
    I'm about to... I sent him one final email asking him to give me a call so we can sort it out without getting anybody else involved, but it looks like that's what I might have to do. I just feel like a dick for doing it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCloudsZJ View Post
    I'm about to... I sent him one final email asking him to give me a call so we can sort it out without getting anybody else involved, but it looks like that's what I might have to do. I just feel like a dick for doing it.
    The problem with on line purchases is that it's all about trust and you never know if you're gonna be cheated. I've been real fortunate so far because all my purchases are on the web. I can't find anything I need at any store in Mexico. Yesterday I wanted to install the side steps on my Wrangler. I bought the steps on eBay. They were supposed to include the mounting SPECIAL U bolt hardware. What I got was eight 5/16" bolts which came nowhere near being correct. Went shopping for nutserts cause the mount hole are blind. After 4 hours and hitting every store I could think of I found that no one had ever heard of or understood the concept of what I wanted. But I digress. So far I have been very lucky with purchasing on line. I know that my day will come, I just don't know when.

  8. #8
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    Can we please put some sort of limitation on the selling and buying? I know we want it lax here but we are the only forum that does this and I have also had bad experiences but with buyers instead. 3months and 20 posts doesn't seem unreasonable.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  9. #9
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
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    Turns out, I sent the money as a "gift" instead of marking it as "Payment for Goods" so that Bob didn't have to pick up any extra fees. Money sent as a gift can't disputed.

    Awesome.

    Seriously, road trip to Chicago, anybody?

  10. #10
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    What kind of limitations are you thinking?

  11. #11
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    Something like I said previously, a coulle months and a handfulof post before you could post in "classifieds"
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  12. #12
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    Ah... ok I understand now.

  13. #13
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Logan,

    Well that sux.

    Possibly he didn't know the second guy didn't clear his VIN - not that that makes it ok. He should still get in contact and refund some or all of it.

    I assume even a locked tuner has some value - although I'm not sure how much. (probably had more value a few months ago when it was between models, now - not so much)



    Quote Originally Posted by lilbullie5.9 View Post
    Can we please put some sort of limitation on the selling and buying? I know we want it lax here but we are the only forum that does this and I have also had bad experiences but with buyers instead. 3months and 20 posts doesn't seem unreasonable.
    Maybe this is something we can discuss among the mod/admins but I have mixed feelings about the subject.

    IIRC we haven't had too many people come on here just to scam people. From the looks of sneakycastro's history he looks/looked to be legit before this mess started.

    Some of you guys might not have been around back then but the whole Colin/Wrinklechops saga seems to show you can't assume something is a legit transaction due to the length of membership or the number of posts. I've seen that happen on JF and other forums too - granted there's a difference in some of these cases between a seller that got in a bad situation and someone that's scamming outright, but that doesn't make too much of a difference to the buyer that's out the money.


    Buying stuff online is always a risky proposition, but I don't see buying something from a new member (especially a new member, as that should elicit a little more caution) on here as being much different from all the stuff we post in our awesome ebay/Clist thread. Either it's legit or it's not and whether it's being bought and sold sight unseen or in person it's basically buyer beware.

    If we barred people from selling before X number of posts or X months as a member, we might save someone from getting scammed - but we could also be losing out on legit merchandise from someone that had something for sale and found the forum while researching places to sell it.
    Last edited by Z88Z; 05-01-2014 at 09:05 AM.

  14. #14
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    I agree there's some ins and outs but we are getting bigger so may be time to start reconsidering. Ultimately the whole time/post thing could still be bypassed via PM. It ends up in the sellers/buyers court no matter what.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  15. #15
    Steve Jobs Residential Teabagger Redsand's Avatar
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    That jeep went to Robert tuned by Hemifever. I purchased that SCT unit and it's definetly VIN locked (unless something happened that I'm not aware of). Not sure where he got his original story from...
    -Chris-

    I have a Jeep



  16. #16
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsand View Post
    That jeep went to Robert tuned by Hemifever. I purchased that SCT unit and it's definetly VIN locked (unless something happened that I'm not aware of). Not sure where he got his original story from...

    I don't think it works like that.


    I hope I have this right after all this time, but AFAIK there's two different "locks" these tuners can have.


    If it's loaded to one vehicle, then later the tune is "unloaded" from that original vehicle - meaning the PCM is restored to it's stock settings and the SCT tune is gone - it can be used on a second vehicle.

    That can be done for a total of three vehicles, but only one vehicle at a time can actually be running the SCT tune. After the third time I believe the tuner is locked anyway and can't be used again.
    The way I understood it it goes by the number of downloads rather than the VINS etc, so if you put it on the first vehicle and removed it, it could go on a second vehicle, if you remove it from that it could go back to the first vehicle - but it's still considered a third download and can't be used again until it's unlocked.

    The one part I'm not 100% sure of - how many times it can be uploaded and downloaded on just one original Jeep. I think it's still three, but if the tuner (person) is doing re-tunes or 'unlimited' tunes they might be sending something in the new file that cancels it out. (I don't know - I think I'm getting over my head here, LOL)


    The other way - which appears to be what happened to Logan here - is that the tuner is "VIN locked" while the tune is active on any given Jeep. For example, if I get a tune from an SCT vendor and load it into my 5.9, then I hand the tuner to someone else - it's useless. That person can't do anything with it, except to pay to have it unlocked.



    I'm pretty sure I have that right - mostly

    I'll check back in Ryan's threads or whatever since I believe he's gone over this before. I'll try and post a confirmation or correction for the info I provided.


    As far as whether a Sean tune works differently from a Ryan tune in terms of how this whole locking thing works, I'm not 100% sure of that either but I imagine it works the same way.

  17. #17
    Steve Jobs Residential Teabagger Redsand's Avatar
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    it's been a while but I had to provide Sean my VIN number so I assumed it was locked to that jeep.
    -Chris-

    I have a Jeep



  18. #18
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsand View Post
    it's been a while but I had to provide Sean my VIN number so I assumed it was locked to that jeep.
    Darn it - I'm going to have to ask Ryan for a refresher course on the subject.

    Well, we're all saying mostly the same thing - that it's locked to the PCM it's tuned for. But I'm pretty sure from conversations I've had with Ryan etc that it "unlocks" when that PCM is restored to it's stock tune, and I'm pretty sure that can only be done twice.

    I think it goes by a serial number or ID in the PCM itself, but I don't think it's necessarily the VIN for two reasons... 1) I think the VIN in the PCM thing only started in 98, and... 2) a lot of Jeeps might not have the original PCM anyway.

    I know tuning my 98 Ram 5spd PCM was (supposedly) not going to be a problem, and like a lot of used PCMs bought off the shelf etc - you wouldn't necessarily have access to the VIN of the vehicle it came out of




    Quote Originally Posted by FlyinRyan View Post
    ........If you pick up a handheld that is VIN locked or been used on 3 PCMs it will need to be sent back to SCT which will cost $$$......
    Found this in Ryan's vendor thread, so it looks like I got the gist of it right at least
    Last edited by Z88Z; 05-03-2014 at 06:32 AM.

  19. #19
    King Dumbass McCloudsZJ's Avatar
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    Tunes are VIN specific. They have to be or else we could swap them like Pokemon cards. The tuners get married to a PCM when you load the tune onto the vehicle. If its married, it won't work on anything else until it gets divorced and the Jeep is returned to stock tune. The handheld can only get divorced three times before it needs reset by SCT.

  20. #20
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCloudsZJ View Post
    Tunes are VIN specific. They have to be or else we could swap them like Pokemon cards. The tuners get married to a PCM ....
    sigh ....I think we covered that above young lad. Did you tl:dr my post?

    I believe the tuners (Ryan, Sean, etc) are only asking for the VIN for their records - or something. Maybe

    It is "PCM specific" but I think it's reading a serial or ID number in the PCM itself and it isn't doing it til it's loaded, so it serves the same function, one PCM at a time.

    If it was VIN specific how would they 'lock' them on 96/97 ZJs since I don't think the VIN thing started til 98?

    Plus - LIKE I SAID - how would they tune a vehicle with a non-original PCM if they didn't have the VIN of the vehicle it came from?

  21. #21
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    Ryan did not use my VIN he used the ID on my PCM. I'm pretty sure you can return your vehicle to stock and then re-tune with out losing a slot. The slot always recognizes "x" PCM.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hell, I'll test tomorrow since I aint neva sellin my shit.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  22. #22
    SCT Tuning Guru
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    Ii personally do not ask for vins but the SCT looks at both PCM and Vin. Each time you use a different PCM with a different VIN it will use up a slot. So it is not a good idea to swap back and forth between vehicles unless both are same PCM , same VIN.
    Always outmanned...Never outgunned

  23. #23
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    That's good to know. I always wondered if I returned my 5.9 to stock if it would use another slot next time I used it. I only have 1 slot left.
    1998 Jeep 5.9- Slate Black


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