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  1. #26
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    Ohhh lol never seen that , got any pics ? U use a breather on the fuel line and cap the vac line?

  2. #27
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    AK,
    you need a cubby to get rid of the VIC.... I'll add that to my shopping list.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by x10radsponge View Post
    AK,
    you need a cubby to get rid of the VIC.... I'll add that to my shopping list.
    No! I actually like the VIC. Its green glow makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLEAN AND SLAMMED View Post
    Ohhh lol never seen that , got any pics ? U use a breather on the fuel line and cap the vac line?
    .

    I left everything connected except for the plug.

  5. #30
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    Ugh. CEL is back on. I don't think the resistor trick worked.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by x10radsponge View Post
    AK,
    you need a cubby to get rid of the VIC.... I'll add that to my shopping list.
    This was the best mod I've done so far! haha. Highly recommended.

  7. #32
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLEAN AND SLAMMED View Post
    I been wanting to delete my evap but I didn't know you could do it without having a cel
    Quote Originally Posted by AK-RWC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AK-RWC View Post
    .

    I left everything connected except for the plug.
    Quote Originally Posted by AK-RWC View Post
    Ugh. CEL is back on. I don't think the resistor trick worked.

    What do you mean about the plug? Is that the plug to the purge valve, and did you put the resistor in there?

    Is your Jeep/PCM CALI spec by any chance?

    From what I understand there's lots of people successfully using that resistor trick - but it only works with FED spec PCMs. If you have the CALI PCM it will still be looking for that duty solenoid or whatever the second one is and you'll get a CEL.

    If that's the problem you can probably find a FED PCM fairly cheap, or if you're ever going the SCT route Ryan can 're-spec' it from CALI to FED.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
    What do you mean about the plug? Is that the plug to the purge valve, and did you put the resistor in there?
    I meant the plug to the purge valve. Yes, that's where I plugged in the resistor:

    And yes, before you ask if I'm a complete idiot, the resistor is in the harness side; I just taped up the purge valve to keep gunk out of it. I tucked the harness/resistor down by the edge between the purge-valave and the fender (it's barely visible in the photo). My '98 FSM arrived two days ago and I flipped through it; I don't believe this is a CA-spec emissions Jeep based on what I see in the engine compartment.

    That being said, the ECU/PCM (I prefer calling it an ECU; force of habit) has obviously been modified by a dealer based on a hood sticker, and additionally, the PO told me that they had a used ECU/PCM installed two years ago (they showed me the receipt). (At least it doesn't have the death-flash; when I test drove it initially, it was pinging like a banshee (do banshees ping?) under hard acceleration. They admitted to running 87 octane. I dumped in two bottles of expensive not-street-legal octane boost, let it circulate for a minute, and continued the test drive without pinging.)



    Is your Jeep/PCM CALI spec by any chance?

    From what I understand there's lots of people successfully using that resistor trick - but it only works with FED spec PCMs. If you have the CALI PCM it will still be looking for that duty solenoid or whatever the second one is and you'll get a CEL.
    Here's the ECU:




    . . . and a sticker on the hood adjacent to the ECU, which I believe is no longer a valid indicator of what software is in the ECU based on the sticker on the ECU and the fact that the PO said they had it changed two years ago:


    If that's the problem you can probably find a FED PCM fairly cheap, or if you're ever going the SCT route Ryan can 're-spec' it from CALI to FED.

    I'm somewhat tempted to start doing power upgrades, but I need to finish getting the flares on first, and now I think we may need to change the 46RE solenoids based on hard shifts. I want to get the CEL off and have her drive it this winter to assure ourselves that this is a stable, reliable Jeep before I start doing additional mods.

  9. #34
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    I maybe wrong, and I will "edit" it if I am, but I think you got a Cali PCM which has been flashed. But, I am probably wrong....

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    The way I'm understanding this is that the part number was the same irrespective of if it was death-flashed or not. Because ours pings with 87 and runs great on 90, I'm thinking it's not death-flashed. It is, however, a California-spec PCM. Which sucks, because the one they pulled out was NOT a Cal-spec PCM (based on the hood sticker).

  11. #36
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    (Why can't I save the edits to my posts?)

    There was also a TSB for this PCM related to the purge-valve, but it seems unrelated to my specific problem, and in fact seems to be just the opposite: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1997/18-36-97.htm

  12. #37
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    I think I've got this: I have a CAL-spec PCM. CAL-spec PCMs were equipped in ZJs that came with both the purge valve, and the LDP. I don't have an LDP since this ZJ was not originally a CAL-spec ZJ. Essentially, the mechanic who installed the PCM put in the wrong PCM. Now I will always have a CEL since the PCM will be looking for an LDP which doesn't exist.

    So my choices are: SCT, pay somebody to reflash, or find a FED-spec PCM (that isn't death-flashed).

    Am I right?

  13. #38
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK-RWC View Post
    .... It is, however, a California-spec PCM. Which sucks, because the one they pulled out was NOT a Cal-spec PCM (based on the hood sticker).
    Compare the numbers to this chart here: http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread...r-(all-of-them


    Was the original PCM actually removed - and if so, why?

    Sounds like you're saying the mechanic physically replaced it with a different PCM at some point, probably cuz it was suspected to be bad? ...or no?

    If not - the update part numbers on the label are just the flash revision numbers but it's sorta the same as a new PCM. New PCMs with new part numbers kept coming out as they revised and refined the software (just look at all the 5.9 PCM numbers in that thread! ^ )
    If you went to the dealer they'd flash it with whatever the latest revision number was, and in effect your PCM would become that newer PCM.


    I'm sure you've figured this out, but.... The sticker on the hood has a later revision date and 'should' be what's in the PCM - but if the PCM was physically replaced with a used PCM from another Jeep then that revision number that's on the PCM is probably the accurate one.




    Quote Originally Posted by AK-RWC View Post
    I think I've got this: I have a CAL-spec PCM. CAL-spec PCMs were equipped in ZJs that came with both the purge valve, and the LDP. I don't have an LDP since this ZJ was not originally a CAL-spec ZJ. Essentially, the mechanic who installed the PCM put in the wrong PCM. Now I will always have a CEL since the PCM will be looking for an LDP which doesn't exist.

    So my choices are: SCT, pay somebody to reflash, or find a FED-spec PCM (that isn't death-flashed).

    Am I right?

    Yes from looking at your pics I don't see the LDP so it looks to be a FED ZJ.

    Now here's the thing... the one part I didn't get from your posts was - were you doing the resistor trick to eliminate a CEL that was already there, or did the CEL only come on when you added the resistor?

    ....cuz if it didn't have the CEL all along then theoretically it's not a CALI PCM.

    If that CEL only came about when you did the resistor trick then I'd say it's a problem with that. Cold solder joint, broken wire etc.



    Assuming this whole thing is brought about by it being a CALI PCM on a FED Jeep, you're right on the fixes, I'd say, but maybe there are some other options?


    Any recourse through the mechanic that replaced it? Tell him it really wasn't the right part for your Jeep and have him hunt down another one?

    Couldn't hurt to try Jeep. I know it's out of warranty but sometimes they'll stand behind emissions related stuff beyond that. Then again - any chance they have to say someone else caused it they'll probably jump on, so probably not.

    I'm assuming only Jeep does the actual revision flashes - but I never thought about it that much. Anyone know that?

    Ryan can do it (CALI to FED flash) but I assume you want it taken care of right away - and if you've been following the SCT thing the problem is they stopped making the handheld that we use, they're sold out, and the new one isn't out yet, so it would be a matter of finding one.

    I'd get prices on those options but I think the cheapest option is going to be finding a FED PCM.
    If you hunt around you should be able to find a good used PCM, or throw an ad in our Wanted To Buy section. You can try car-part.com, enter your zip and it will even show you the closest yard that has one (with the dash btw, carpart.c is a different site)

    The only thing is - I never confirmed this but I've heard PCMs can theoretically "go bad on the shelf" after being removed from the vehicle, so make sure you can get some kind of warranty. Which may be hard or impossible to do on electric parts

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
    Compare the numbers to this chart here: http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread...r-(all-of-them
    Done. The hood sticker is a FED sticker. The PCM sticker is a CAL sticker.

    Was the original PCM actually removed - and if so, why?
    Keeping in mind we've only had this ZJ since 9/10/13, the answer is "yes." The PO stated they had the PCM replaced, and included a receipt showing that a NAPA Auto Care Center replaced the PCM on 8/3/13. When I asked why, they said the shop told them the old computer had died and it needed a new one. (Looking at all the cash they dumped into this thing, I could tell they were pouring money in whenever any mechanic told them to, without necessarily investigating exactly what failed or why.)

    Sounds like you're saying the mechanic physically replaced it with a different PCM at some point, probably cuz it was suspected to be bad? ...or no?
    Yes. See above.

    If not - the update part numbers on the label are just the flash revision numbers but it's sorta the same as a new PCM. New PCMs with new part numbers kept coming out as they revised and refined the software (just look at all the 5.9 PCM numbers in that thread! ^ )
    If you went to the dealer they'd flash it with whatever the latest revision number was, and in effect your PCM would become that newer PCM.
    Understood. Since this PCM was physically replaced, I have no idea what software version is on the PCM.

    I'm sure you've figured this out, but.... The sticker on the hood has a later revision date and 'should' be what's in the PCM - but if the PCM was physically replaced with a used PCM from another Jeep then that revision number that's on the PCM is probably the accurate one.
    Agreed. The PCM was physically replaced, rendering the hood sticker meaningless.





    Yes from looking at your pics I don't see the LDP so it looks to be a FED ZJ.
    Woot!

    Now here's the thing... the one part I didn't get from your posts was - were you doing the resistor trick to eliminate a CEL that was already there, or did the CEL only come on when you added the resistor?

    ....cuz if it didn't have the CEL all along then theoretically it's not a CALI PCM.

    If that CEL only came about when you did the resistor trick then I'd say it's a problem with that. Cold solder joint, broken wire etc.
    When they arrived to let me inspect and test drive it, I immediately noticed the CEL and asked about it. They said it wasn't on when they drove over and so it must have just turned back on. They said it has been throwing an "EVAP" code according to their mechanic, who could not find anything wrong and recommended they get a new gas cap. They purchased a new gas cap but hadn't installed it. (The OEM gas cap is fine.) Everything ran fine during the test drive so I wasn't particularly worried about it.

    When my wife took it in to my buddy's shop to get the alignment done after we swapped axles, he put a scanner on their and pulled the 1494 LDP code. He cleared it. It came back.

    I took it in to get the tranny fluid changed and argue with the shop about ATF +4, band adjustment, and TV cable adjustment (I went for professional service and wasted my money and time; there's another minor thread about that; should have just done it myself since I know how to), and pulled a 1494 and a 1495. He cleared them. The CEL came back.

    I got the resistor and inserted it into the purge-valve solenoid plug, disconnected the battery to reset the CEL, and thought I was good-to-go. The went away for my test drive, and came back on the following day when my wife drove it to work.

    Assuming this whole thing is brought about by it being a CALI PCM on a FED Jeep, you're right on the fixes, I'd say, but maybe there are some other options?


    Any recourse through the mechanic that replaced it? Tell him it really wasn't the right part for your Jeep and have him hunt down another one?
    Unlikely; we are now different owners. I doubt they will say the warranty transferred, if there was even any kind of a warranty. I'll give that shop a call and see what they have to say.


    Couldn't hurt to try Jeep. I know it's out of warranty but sometimes they'll stand behind emissions related stuff beyond that. Then again - any chance they have to say someone else caused it they'll probably jump on, so probably not.
    My wife wants us to ask the Jeep dealership too. I just don't want to get bent over by them. Can they reflash it to a FED-spec PCM?

    I'm assuming only Jeep does the actual revision flashes - but I never thought about it that much. Anyone know that?

    Ryan can do it (CALI to FED flash) but I assume you want it taken care of right away - and if you've been following the SCT thing the problem is they stopped making the handheld that we use, they're sold out, and the new one isn't out yet, so it would be a matter of finding one.
    It's the wife's DD, and until my Subaru is running again, it's our primary source of transportation. I've always got my Scrambler to drive when things get bad, and I can pull a CJ-7 back to life if necessary too, but I'd prefer to not take the 5.9L down for more than an evening at a time.

    I'd get prices on those options but I think the cheapest option is going to be finding a FED PCM.
    If you hunt around you should be able to find a good used PCM, or throw an ad in our Wanted To Buy section. You can try car-part.com, enter your zip and it will even show you the closest yard that has one (with the dash btw, carpart.c is a different site)

    The only thing is - I never confirmed this but I've heard PCMs can theoretically "go bad on the shelf" after being removed from the vehicle, so make sure you can get some kind of warranty. Which may be hard or impossible to do on electric parts
    Ugh.

  15. #40
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    Just called the local Jeep dealership. They are afraid to try to reflash the PCM to the current VIN. They said that without knowing the specific history for the PCM, 9 times out of 10, they'll end up bricking the PCM. He said he'd be happy to take our $110 that it'll cost, but he suggested going aftermarket. Apparently there's a company in CA that for $300 will send a guaranteed-to-work PCM flashed for the correct VIN. But if I'm going to spend $300, I might as well lot for an SCT Tuner and do it myself.

  16. #41
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    yep.. Search the old craigs list and other chrysler boards...

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    Anybody know anything about these guys? And why are two divisions of the same company offering the same thing for different prices?
    http://jeeppcmdirect.com/details_product.php?id=24
    http://jeepgrandcherokeepcm.com/1998...herokee-2.html

  18. #43
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    Update: using the receipt the PO provided, I called the shop that replaced the PCM on 8/3. The guy who answered the phone knew exactly what I was talking about, remembered the Jeep and the PO, and was the guy who ordered the PCM. He said the PCM was a brick when it came in. He ignored the hood sticker, and matched the number on the PCM itself when he ordered the new/used one from a junkyard in the L48. He told the PO that "this may not work, and you may need to take it in to Chrysler to get reflashed anyway." He confirmed that the odometer is now about 8000 miles off. He was not surprised that the well meaning, but mechanically inept, POs failed to take it in to get reflashed. (Sweet! The ZJ is only has 112,000 miles on it!) He agreed that the ZJ was in great shape, and that they brought it in to him whenever it did anything funny.

    SO that tells me that a prior PO to my PO swapped the original PCM, with the hood sticker 56041519AG (FED-spec), to a CAL-spec PCM with 56041538AG, and this guy swapped to yet another PCM. Which means I have no idea what the actual mileage is on the ZJ, or when the first CAL-spec PCM went in.

  19. #44
    Forum CONDUCTOR Man Z88Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK-RWC View Post
    ...Anybody know anything about these guys? And why are two divisions of the same company offering the same thing for different prices? But if I'm going to spend $300, I might as well lot for an SCT Tuner and do it myself.

    Just called the local Jeep dealership. They are afraid to try to reflash the PCM to the current VIN....

    He confirmed that the odometer is now about 8000 miles off.... (Sweet! The ZJ is only has 112,000 miles on it!) I have no idea what the actual mileage is on the ZJ, or when the first CAL-spec PCM went in...

    I'm always leery about places that have (or sell under) two different names. Doesn't mean it's not legit but it doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. Kinda like US car hoods that sells the cowl hoods, I think they're also uscarbody or something, but it's the same site with the same pics and everything - so why two different names?

    Anyway - I totally agree, once you're getting near the $200 mark it makes much more sense to just go SCT. That way you're getting a "twofer" and take care of the FED/CALI thing and get a tune at the same time.

    Not sure about what the Jeep dealer told you. Possibly true, possibly not.

    The PCM VIN does not need to match your VIN - although possibly that's the only way they can do the reflash. Whereas the dealerships have to answer to the feds and the manufacturer about anything emissions related it might be the only way they can legally do it, or possibly that's the only way their DRB scanner can handle it - or the Jeep guys might not be smart enough to have figured out how to do it with the DRB. (not sure if you've been exposed to this yet but between the high turnover of techs in general and the dealer techs working mostly on stockers, the people on the Jeep forums tend to know more about these ZJs than the techs do)

    Now for the bad part...
    If you want to know how many miles your Jeep has on it - just look at the odometer
    Unless the BCM (Body Control Module) has ever been changed, that mileage is accurate.

    I was pretty sure about this but I asked Ryan about it the other day in response to someone mentioning miles being recorded in the PCM. They aren't.
    Rumors have always flowed fast and furious about the VINs in the PCM and the BCM and the miles etc. VINs don't have to match, although I believe they do need to have some VIN in there - but I believe that's mainly the BCM.
    I think you get weird things like seatbelt and various dash warning lights not running off if there's no VIN in the BCM, and I know many people have used the Mopar Performance PCMs without having the VIN flashed.


    I don't know if Ryan has any tuners at the moment as getting ahold of the handhelds themselves is really problematic now that they're between models. Depending on what he has available or whether you can hunt one down yourself, I think the best option here might be to see if you can find one used. I'd check the boneyards or do a WTB on the forums

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    Hmmm... I really thought the mileage was stored in the PCM, as did the mechanic who changed the PCM. Why then, do you need to provide the mileage when you order a rebuilt PCM from one of the sketchy places?


    'Niner porn:

  21. #46
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    like a gorgeous woman with kankles... change those wheels.

    I checked the yard today, not one jeep with driving lights. Also found that none had rear opening hatch glass and another 2wd with a VIC?

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by x10radsponge View Post
    like a gorgeous woman with kankles... change those wheels.

    The Ultrastars are safely tucked away until such a time as the 32x11.5R15 BFGs need to be replaced.


    I checked the yard today, not one jeep with driving lights. Also found that none had rear opening hatch glass and another 2wd with a VIC?
    D@mn. She was just asking this morning if her fog lights work yet.

  23. #48
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    Found out that I have a dead low-speed fan switch (this is the upper hose, correct?). I've diagnosed by jumping the switches that the efan works on high and low, and all the relays work. But the engine has been running at 210+, leading me to conclude that its the low-speed switch that's dead. The Airtex/Duralast switches are not being produced, and don't appear to be in stock anywhere (the Internet lies, because when you actually call the sellers they tell you the don't have them and can't get them; I've got orders being refunded through both eBay and Amazone at the moment). I'm tempted to try this switch:
    http://www.rodneydickman.com/n20.html
    even though it requires drilling and tapping the T-fitting, and running a ground wire elsewhere. I've also got an email in to Kolak to see about buying the complete hose assemblies since ours are feeling squishy anyway.


    In the meantime, I sold her '95 4.0 Laredo last night. One final parting shot. It was a good Jeep, but it's going to a fellow wheeler, so I know it'll have a good home:

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    How much you get outa her?

  25. #50
    im super special x10radsponge's Avatar
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    Is that the switch you were talking to me about?

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