Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    5 Spd V8 ZJ 96zj318's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    168
    Rep Power
    60

    B&G Chryler Question

    I performed an NV3500 swap in my 5.2 Grand Cherokee and installed a Ram ECU after I had it tuned by B&G Chrysler who teamed up with Arrington Performance. I've heard good things about them and it's why I chose them. The truck pulls hard from 2750rpm and up but from idle to 2750rpm it's not a dog but not powerful either. It sounds almost like its pinging and I run 93 octane. It guzzles gas under the slightest load. I feel as if the tuner simply over richened it up under slight load and that causes the ping as well.
    96 ZJ 5 SPEED 5.2L 206,63x Miles. Mods: H&R Springs, Addco Sway Bars, Bilstein 4600 HDs, NV3500 Tranny , Air Gap Intake, Big Gulp TB, K&N CAI, Bosch 24 lb/hr 4-Hole Injectors, Iron Ram 2.02" Heads, Patriot Headers, Custom TRUE DUAL Exhaust, Hughes Cam, 242 T-Case, Taurus E-Fan, 5.9 Louvers & Wheels, 6k HIDs, MSD Ignition, GREEN L.E.D. Interior.

    True Dual Exhaust Video (before headers and 5 speed) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofFJzCXVhl0
    5 Speed Video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2xW9w4pG7E
    0-60mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I
    50-110mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4h5iAA9D_U

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ausin, TX
    Posts
    2,111
    Rep Power
    4416
    I run rich enough to have a CEL for it and I have great idle-3000 power and never ping. Have you done your plenum gasket yet?
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  3. #3
    5 Spd V8 ZJ 96zj318's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    168
    Rep Power
    60
    Yea I bought Hughes/Edlebrocke's Air Gap intake which eliminates that problem
    96 ZJ 5 SPEED 5.2L 206,63x Miles. Mods: H&R Springs, Addco Sway Bars, Bilstein 4600 HDs, NV3500 Tranny , Air Gap Intake, Big Gulp TB, K&N CAI, Bosch 24 lb/hr 4-Hole Injectors, Iron Ram 2.02" Heads, Patriot Headers, Custom TRUE DUAL Exhaust, Hughes Cam, 242 T-Case, Taurus E-Fan, 5.9 Louvers & Wheels, 6k HIDs, MSD Ignition, GREEN L.E.D. Interior.

    True Dual Exhaust Video (before headers and 5 speed) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofFJzCXVhl0
    5 Speed Video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2xW9w4pG7E
    0-60mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I
    50-110mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4h5iAA9D_U

  4. #4
    Predator9 KennY5_9PowerS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bethesda, Maryland, United States
    Posts
    1,500
    Rep Power
    215046
    are you running injectors? are you sct tuned?
    1998 Deep Slate 5.9L-SOLD to Diirty ZJ
    Build Thread Below
    http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread...light=predator
    1998 Bright Platinum 5.9L-Predator9 DD
    Build Thread Below
    http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread...ator-9-Part-II
    "Sometimes she goes and sometimes she doesen't, cause thats the fuking way she goes boys." -Trailer Park Boys




  5. #5
    5 Spd V8 ZJ 96zj318's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    168
    Rep Power
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by KennY5_9PowerS View Post
    are you running injectors? are you sct tuned?
    Stock Injectors and no i'm B&G tuned that's why i'm asking if it's the tuner messed something up
    96 ZJ 5 SPEED 5.2L 206,63x Miles. Mods: H&R Springs, Addco Sway Bars, Bilstein 4600 HDs, NV3500 Tranny , Air Gap Intake, Big Gulp TB, K&N CAI, Bosch 24 lb/hr 4-Hole Injectors, Iron Ram 2.02" Heads, Patriot Headers, Custom TRUE DUAL Exhaust, Hughes Cam, 242 T-Case, Taurus E-Fan, 5.9 Louvers & Wheels, 6k HIDs, MSD Ignition, GREEN L.E.D. Interior.

    True Dual Exhaust Video (before headers and 5 speed) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofFJzCXVhl0
    5 Speed Video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2xW9w4pG7E
    0-60mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I
    50-110mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4h5iAA9D_U

  6. #6
    Member strang3majik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Englewood, FL
    Posts
    1,032
    Rep Power
    100
    Usually if its getting too much fuel it won't ping as fuel cools combustion temps down substantially. Sounds like its actually running lean, which will dog it out as well.

    Being as you have an air gap intake, the plenum is not a concern.

    Original fuel pump? It could be dying.
    2005 Dodge Neon SRT4
    1996 Dodge Ram Indy Pace Truck
    1985 Dodge Omni GLH
    1984 BMW 318i
    1967 Plymouth Valiant (5.7 Hemi swap)

  7. #7
    Member JGC403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pottstown, PA
    Posts
    2,276
    Rep Power
    131
    Install a Wideband O2 sensor. Then you will know whats going on.
    No replacement for displacement!

    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo ZJ
    360 Stroker, 408c.i.


  8. #8
    SCT Tuning Guru
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    150
    Rep Power
    2230
    Get a datalogger, a real one that can log RPM and MAP (fuel trims would be nice too), that will give you a better idea of whats going on.

    I've retuned a bunch of older B&G stuff.

  9. #9
    5 Spd V8 ZJ 96zj318's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    168
    Rep Power
    60
    I had an O2 wideband hooked up in the tailpipe and drove down the street with many different loads and throttle positions. I know at the tailpipe reads .8-1.3 a/f leaner than what the motor's burning and under load it was 14.2-13.5 on the gauge so that's 13.3-12.8 at the combustion chamber. For cruise, it's around 15.6-15.0 so that's 14.9-14.4 in the cylinders which I know 15.8-15.2 is ideal so it's a tad rich that's what causes my hwy mpg to be a little lower than it should but not too bad. Under WOT it was 13.5-12.9 at the tailpipe so that's 12.8-12.2 at the engine. Since it's naturally aspirated, that's rich enough with 93 octane. Even though the a/f ratios are good under light-moderate load I still feel the motor isn't producing its potential from idle-2750rpm. What do you guys think is the reason? Maybe the tuner went easy on timing?

    I'm not complaining because the truck takes off at WOT and feels like it makes (and this is hopefully going to be validated with a dynojet soon) 280+hp at the wheels and 350+wtq. But it's my DD and I feel that from idle - 2750rpm it's not dead but it feels almost like there's little torque in that rpm range. (at least until you give it more throttle). What do you guys think?
    96 ZJ 5 SPEED 5.2L 206,63x Miles. Mods: H&R Springs, Addco Sway Bars, Bilstein 4600 HDs, NV3500 Tranny , Air Gap Intake, Big Gulp TB, K&N CAI, Bosch 24 lb/hr 4-Hole Injectors, Iron Ram 2.02" Heads, Patriot Headers, Custom TRUE DUAL Exhaust, Hughes Cam, 242 T-Case, Taurus E-Fan, 5.9 Louvers & Wheels, 6k HIDs, MSD Ignition, GREEN L.E.D. Interior.

    True Dual Exhaust Video (before headers and 5 speed) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofFJzCXVhl0
    5 Speed Video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2xW9w4pG7E
    0-60mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I
    50-110mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4h5iAA9D_U

  10. #10
    Member JGC403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pottstown, PA
    Posts
    2,276
    Rep Power
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by 96zj318 View Post
    I had an O2 wideband hooked up in the tailpipe and drove down the street with many different loads and throttle positions. I know at the tailpipe reads .8-1.3 a/f leaner than what the motor's burning and under load it was 14.2-13.5 on the gauge so that's 13.3-12.8 at the combustion chamber.
    Wait, what?how are you coming up with AF ratios at the combustion chamber?? If your measuring AF at the tail pipe, you have to remember the exhaust is passing through the CAT. Best place for a wideband gauge is close to the stock Narrow band sensor, right after the Y-pipe and before the CAT.

    14.7:1 is stoich. If its dumping in to much fuel it will hurt power also. If you haven't done so you could try the IAT relocate, this will richen it up more but also advance the timing a little, if you feel a power difference this might help determine if its a timing issue.
    No replacement for displacement!

    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo ZJ
    360 Stroker, 408c.i.


  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ausin, TX
    Posts
    2,111
    Rep Power
    4416
    Quote Originally Posted by JGC403 View Post
    Wait, what?how are you coming up with AF ratios at the combustion chamber?? If your measuring AF at the tail pipe, you have to remember the exhaust is passing through the CAT. Best place for a wideband gauge is close to the stock Narrow band sensor, right after the Y-pipe and before the CAT.

    14.7:1 is stoich. If its dumping in to much fuel it will hurt power also. If you haven't done so you could try the IAT relocate, this will richen it up more but also advance the timing a little, if you feel a power difference this might help determine if its a timing issue.
    I don't think the IAT advances timing but there is crank position sensor mod that does.
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Black Pearl" totaled
    '98 Grand 5.9 "Eleanoir"
    "No Officer, all four tire tracks are mine, it WAS all wheel drive......yes ma'am Im aware this structure is normally used to 'park' cars"

  12. #12
    Member JGC403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pottstown, PA
    Posts
    2,276
    Rep Power
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by lilbullie5.9 View Post
    I don't think the IAT advances timing but there is crank position sensor mod that does.
    If the PCM sees cooler air it will ritchen it up and advance the timing a bit.
    No replacement for displacement!

    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo ZJ
    360 Stroker, 408c.i.


  13. #13
    Member JGC403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pottstown, PA
    Posts
    2,276
    Rep Power
    131
    Has the distributor ever been out of the engine? If so did you use a scan tool to set fuel sync?
    No replacement for displacement!

    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo ZJ
    360 Stroker, 408c.i.


  14. #14
    RallyJeep GO
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,345
    Rep Power
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by JGC403 View Post
    If the PCM sees cooler air it will ritchen it up and advance the timing a bit.
    In open loop, yes. In closed loop, it's going off O2 feedback, so it'll still give a bit more timing, but won't run any richer.
    1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited - Deep Slate
    Mods: Big trans cooler, 231 swap, Indy MA-X heads prepped by IMM, Comp 20-744-9 cam, 1.7 HS roller rockers, 52mm TB, Airgap manifold, DT headers and full 3" exhaust, SCT tune homebrewed by me, Martin Saine valve body, B&M tranny pan, magic suspension made from unicorn tears, power steering cooler, lots of lighting mods

  15. #15
    Member JGC403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pottstown, PA
    Posts
    2,276
    Rep Power
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    In open loop, yes. In closed loop, it's going off O2 feedback, so it'll still give a bit more timing, but won't run any richer.
    Well who cares about anything else besides WOT, lol???
    No replacement for displacement!

    1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo ZJ
    360 Stroker, 408c.i.


  16. #16
    5 Spd V8 ZJ 96zj318's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    168
    Rep Power
    60
    Woah! Everyone slow down.

    First, I have tuning experience with import cars, and I know the .8-1.3 a/f leaner at the tailpipe rule from that.

    Second, I don't have a catalytic converter. I have a custom true dual 2.5" exhaust with Magnaflow true dual in/dual out muffler and an X-pipe where the cat was.

    Thrid, I tried the IAT sensor mod and my truck ran way overly rich and drank gas like I drink water.

    Fourth, I'm asking if timing is the problem because Fuel is apparently fine.
    96 ZJ 5 SPEED 5.2L 206,63x Miles. Mods: H&R Springs, Addco Sway Bars, Bilstein 4600 HDs, NV3500 Tranny , Air Gap Intake, Big Gulp TB, K&N CAI, Bosch 24 lb/hr 4-Hole Injectors, Iron Ram 2.02" Heads, Patriot Headers, Custom TRUE DUAL Exhaust, Hughes Cam, 242 T-Case, Taurus E-Fan, 5.9 Louvers & Wheels, 6k HIDs, MSD Ignition, GREEN L.E.D. Interior.

    True Dual Exhaust Video (before headers and 5 speed) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofFJzCXVhl0
    5 Speed Video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2xW9w4pG7E
    0-60mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8CtvyWa9I
    50-110mph Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4h5iAA9D_U

  17. #17
    SCT Tuning Guru
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    150
    Rep Power
    2230
    Quote Originally Posted by comptiger5000 View Post
    In open loop, yes. In closed loop, it's going off O2 feedback, so it'll still give a bit more timing, but won't run any richer.
    This is actually incorrect- in JTEC there is a fueling compensation factor for IAT.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •